Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

The Forgotten Transition: Navigating Perimenopause and Beyond

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Why don't we talk about menopause? In this candid, laughter-filled conversation, Bessie opens up about her journey through perimenopause and the bewildering array of symptoms nobody prepared her for. Like many women, particularly those from African backgrounds, she received no education about this inevitable transition—not from her mother, not from her doctor, and certainly not from society at large.

From night sweats so severe they require midnight clothing changes to the sudden, inexplicable itching that appears at bedtime, we explore the reality of symptoms far beyond the stereotypical hot flashes. Brain fog that makes you forget your own name mid-sentence. The sudden aversion to cooking after a lifetime of enjoying it. Digestive changes that leave you sleeping sitting upright. Cold flashes instead of hot ones. The conversation weaves through these experiences with honesty and humor, acknowledging the confusion and sometimes fear these unexpected changes bring.

Most poignantly, we discuss how these symptoms impact women's professional lives and relationships. When concentration fails in important meetings or anxiety suddenly appears over minor changes, women often suffer silently rather than seeking support. The workplace is slowly becoming more menopause-aware, but progress depends on women being willing to speak openly about their experiences. Similarly, educating men—particularly partners—about menopause creates understanding during a time when mood swings and physical changes can strain relationships.

If you're experiencing perplexing symptoms in your 40s or beyond, you're not alone. Help is available, though you may need to advocate for yourself. Through rest, research, medical support, and connection with others going through similar experiences, women can navigate this transition with dignity and even find the humor in it. The conversation ends with a powerful reminder: this is a universal female experience, and breaking the silence benefits not just ourselves but generations of women to come.

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Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today I've got Bessie in the house with me, and today I'm expecting us to have lots of laughter in the house. Bessie is someone I've known for a long time and I'm just going to ask Bessie to introduce herself, tell us a little bit about herself and then we'll take it from there. So, bessie, say hello to everybody and please introduce yourself.

Speaker 3:

Hello everyone, so good to be here with you. My name is Bessie. I am a mother to three children, a wife, a solicitor by profession, but obviously today I'm here to discuss something with Tele and with you all, and I'm just excited to be here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for coming Today we're discussing menopause and thank you for being vulnerable, because this is a private matter, so I'm very grateful that you're happy to come and talk about something that's sensitive and private as well. So thank you for that. And yeah, so we're talking about menopause and something that has suddenly become very popular. More people are talking about it, even in the workplace. Now they're advocating that people talk more about menopause, and so I think it's a good thing and I think it's something we need to talk about more. And my first question to you who taught you about menopause? Nobody taught me about menopause.

Speaker 3:

What do you mean, nobody taught you about menopause. I found out things for myself. You know, like when you're experiencing something and you're thinking what could be wrong, what could be happening, and then you just go and find out and research, and then you just go and find out and research.

Speaker 3:

And then I remember having to go to see my GP because I was sweating a lot at night. I was sweating so much I was in my 40s and then I went to see my GP and he told me that it was early signs of menopause. He called it perimenopause, called it perimenopause, you know.

Speaker 3:

And then he, um he did say at the time that he didn't think he needed to prescribe anything for me just gave me the leaflets, yeah, and then gave me, you know, like general advice and and that was it, you know. So, yeah, so I, I found out for myself.

Speaker 2:

Your mom didn't tell you anything about it. No, my mom didn't tell me anything either.

Speaker 3:

No, our African parents. You know, when we come from African descent, our parents don't tell us much. They don't tell us much. So my mom didn't tell me much. It was even actually now that you're saying it like when you said we should talk about this. I thought to myself my mom must have gone through this obviously never you know like said anything about it and I think it's really important that we talk about it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I had a similar experience to yours. Um, I had a lot of night sweats and mine was so bad that I used to have, um, a change of clothing by my bedside, because sometimes I would have to change like two times at night and I was really worried about it and, like you do, I checked in Google. They say Google is your friend, but Google is not always your friend, because Google now came up with all kinds of things and I'm like, yay, what is this?

Speaker 2:

I was terrified and I went to see the gp and the gp at the time didn't have a clue. Wow, she didn't know anything. She was just I think she was quite young, to be fair to her, so she probably hadn't come across too many cases like this. So she was like it's nothing, don't worry about it, we'll go with time. So I'm thinking, you don't seem to understand what I'm going through, you know.

Speaker 2:

And then I went back and this time checked other places, not google, and you know found and I began to realize, okay, this could be signs of menopause, you know, and they say there are three stages, if I'm correct. Oh, and before we go any further, I forgot to mention at the beginning a disclaimer yes, bessie and I Absolutely Bessie and I are not medical people. We know nothing about medical stuff. We're both lawyers. So that's. Let me just put that out there. So if you hear anything that you think this sounds like what I might be going through, please do your due diligence check with your GP, check with your doctor and everything.

Speaker 2:

So my GP didn't have a clue and I then eventually found out that this was probably what I was going through. And they say there are three stages perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause. So there are different stages. So for each stage is something that you experience and then the next stage for you to know what's going to happen. So, uh, we might have a medical person on here sometime soon to come and explain in depth the medical aspects of because, yeah, because we know nothing about that. But I was gonna ask you. They say there are. Some people say there are 34 symptoms of menopause, some say they're 47, some say there's a hundred.

Speaker 2:

So menopause, I'm not surprised because everybody's different, everybody's different yeah so I was gonna ask you and I'm bringing up my phone now. I'm gonna read um some symptoms and I just want you to say yes or no to each one, so hot flashes.

Speaker 3:

Yeah well, night sweats, okay, Night sweats.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

I'm dreading the hot flashes because I've heard about them and I'm like no, I don't want to experience that that's the one that lots of people seem to talk about the hot flashes.

Speaker 2:

I never really experienced hot flashes. I nah I didn't maybe once or twice, and probably wasn't anything significant for me to actually notice that I was having a hot flash. Okay. Vaginal dryness, oh yes. Okay, this decreased sex drive yeah, yeah, I'll be honest, breast soreness no okay, irregular periods uh no not really no headaches no mood swings yeah, mood swings yeah okay, fatigue um, not really.

Speaker 3:

I mean, unless you count, maybe like tiredness in the morning, but yeah, no, not fatigue. I wouldn't say I'm fatigued. Okay, depression, depression, uh well, not to be in a depressed state all the time, but I don't know, you're not sure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm not quite sure about that one. Okay, we'll leave that one anxiety yeah, anxiety, yes, definitely why I worry I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I just worry about the lead listener. I think I remember texting you um not too long ago that we changed our kitchen and it gave me severe anxiety.

Speaker 2:

Anxiety, yeah, I was so.

Speaker 3:

I mean it was crippling Really. It was crippling Like for days I couldn't eat, just because I just couldn't work out the change that had happened. I couldn't accept it, Okay.

Speaker 2:

But you wanted the change.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I wanted it, but then it changed and then I was like, what have I done? You know, I just worry over the littlest things. And I'm just trying to work up. You know, walk through things, walk through things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, not be so anxious, okay. Irritability yeah, I do get irritable more than usual, more than before yeah, yeah, so yeah okay, panic disorder uh, panic, no, no joint pain, uh no that's mine, mine is a big yes to that.

Speaker 3:

One joint pain, joint pain yeah, but I do hear the odd creaking here and there I suddenly discovered where my knees were. I do hear the odd creak. Especially when I'm going up and down the stairs, I'll hear some grab like oh god okay, um sense of taste oh that's never heard of that one, yeah no no, okay, itchiness oh let's not even go there

Speaker 3:

really let's not go there. That's like one of the things I'm going through right now okay itching like, especially at night okay, it's like my body knows when I'm in a state of rest okay and I'm like, I'm itching all over like and I'm thinking what's going on, but I haven't actually gone to see my gp about that but I kind of like walked out. This is what it is okay, you know.

Speaker 2:

But yes, yes, itching all over is like yeah could it be because of the night sweats as well? Could it be because you're sweating, no but it's before I sweat.

Speaker 3:

It's before I sleep so I could be like and I I notice it happens more at night. So when I'm ready to sleep, that's when it starts and I'm like what on earth is this? It's like, yeah, it's not a pleasant thing at the moment. Yeah, so that's one of the ones I'm experiencing at the moment, and I'm only perimenopausal so you're wondering what is going on what is going on. Yeah, okay, tingling extremities uh no, not tingling anymore, it's just the itching okay electric sensations.

Speaker 2:

No, not really for me. That's one of the ones that lately I've been. Well, not lately lately, but a little while back I was noticing I would touch something and it would. I'll feel like a shock and I'm thinking what's going on? You know, and it was happening, but I didn't relate that to menopause.

Speaker 3:

So I'm seeing this now I'm thinking okay, wow, there's so, there's so many and this list is actually only just 34.

Speaker 2:

So they say they're up to 100. Okay, burning mouth. Burning mouth. No Digestion changes, oh definitely.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

For me, digestion changes in terms of if I eat after a certain time of the night, I can't sleep. I actually have been sleeping sitting upright. Oh right, I just lie sitting upright I mean I sit upright rather than in bed at night, and that's how I sleep most days now, because no matter how early I ate my dinner, I just seem to just find it difficult.

Speaker 3:

You, know to digest. Yeah, I have that problem as well. I have that problem with digesting food. Yeah, yeah and I? I, if I eat after a certain time, I will wake up with a tummy ache in the morning okay guaranteed like it's like the food hasn't gone anywhere.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I've noticed okay, muscle aches, I know, not really. No, okay, disrupted sleep that's another one.

Speaker 3:

Now that you're mentioning all the symptoms, I'm like oh yeah, disrupted sleep. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

Do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's a very big one for me as well. So, um, yeah, my sleep was I think it came with the anxiety as well that. I was feeling at times, and so I will find it's really difficult to sleep. Okay, and then when I sleep, any slight sound or noise I wake up like almost with a palpitation and that's that really irritates me and I'm like sometimes my husband will come in and I will have to wake up.

Speaker 3:

Oh god, maybe I need another room I'm not advocating another room I know, maybe I need another room so that my sleep will not be disturbed, but then I will then find it so difficult to sleep. So that's why now, whereas when I come back from work, we used to stay downstairs in the living room and all I will just do what I need to do and come to the room, because if I stay downstairs in the living room, by the time I come back upstairs to sleep, I can't sleep, okay. So I'd rather do whatever I need to do and then go upstairs, be on the bed and just sleep off. Okay, from there, from there, yeah, and and also recently I learned how to count or recite the alphabets to fall back to sleep, okay, you know. So I read somewhere this was on instagram, or yes, somewhere, um, where they said like, if you're finding difficult to sleep, you do the abc thing so you say a for apple, b for ball, c for cat, d for dog and things like that, and it has worked.

Speaker 3:

He works for me. So when I find that I can't sleep, I start doing a for apple, b for ball, c for cat, d for dog. Sometimes I play the game and try and fight, uh, try and list how many things begin with that particular alphabet and before you know it I'm falling asleep until the next episode of waking up and I'm thinking oh, when did I even fall asleep? I didn't even.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah really, yeah, that would never work for me, my brain, as my brain is calculating all kinds of things around the clock. So for me, it does.

Speaker 3:

So that's why I deliberately like switch off. So I remember, because that was what was happening to me. I was thinking about work, I'll be thinking about all sorts of rubbish, and so when I found that solution, I was like, oh, wow, okay, I'm gonna try this because I'm really tired of not being able to sleep. And it works. It works for me, yeah no, I, I would never.

Speaker 2:

That would be no, a complete no, because then I'll be thinking a for apple, okay, a for something else, and I'll be calculating, thinking of all sorts of things. I would never sleep, no way. Maybe you should try, try what actually worked for me, because when I was going because I had that as well, and when I was going through that, I tried all kinds of things. I tried, you know, the rain. There's this thing on YouTube. You can listen to raindrops falling.

Speaker 3:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, I tried that it didn't work.

Speaker 2:

There was something called gibberish. On YouTube you listen to somebody just reading a whole load of nonsense. That, oh my goodness in fact, that didn't work at all, because I started thinking oh, what does that would actually mean? Oh, so, instead of having the effect of sending me to sleep inside and made my brain you're not overworking your brain. I was overworking my brain.

Speaker 2:

The only thing that worked for me was breathing exercises because I learned some breathing exercises and there was something somebody said that, um, if you want to sleep, think back to when you were a child and you were pretending to be asleep when your parents came into the room or something like that, and just keep breathing in like that, pretending as if you're sleeping, and you finally fall asleep. And that's the only thing so far that has actually worked for me. So anytime I'm I'm trying to fall asleep, I just do that exercise and then I do the breathing exercise and I fall asleep. So for me, that's what has worked.

Speaker 3:

But try that as well, then I mean if you're listening to this, find what works for you because, yeah, everybody, everybody is different, to be honest, everybody yeah, I remember when I told my sister about you know, like oh, I can't sleep, or so I don't know if she was the one that brought it up, and then I said oh, this is what I do, and she found it really strange. I said go and try it, I walk you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah the other thing I do. For sleep as well, I use magnesium. Okay, yes, because apparently magnesium calms your body down and magnesium helps you to fall asleep. But you have to know the right one. I think it's magnesium glycinate. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly Magnesium glycinate. That's the one that's good for sleep. So that's what I have also. I use that in addition to the exercises.

Speaker 2:

I do before I sleep. I use the magnesium glycinate, and that helps me, so that's another thing that maybe one could try. There's also magnesium flakes as well. You can actually buy them in the shops and you could just run a bath and put the flakes in the water and just sit in the water for a while.

Speaker 2:

Apparently that also helps to soothe, soothe your body, and then you can fall asleep. Then there's magnesium gel as well, which is another thing I found very useful. I rub it on the bottom of my feet at night and for some reason it helps. So these are things that because sleep was my main problem, my main problem, yeah, and I think it's the sleep that makes one lack of sleep that makes one irritable in the mornings.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, because you haven't slept well, your sleep is disturbed. You're waking up in between then, before you know it, it's morning. You have to get up. Yeah, I struggle to get up in the mornings to be honest, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

So uh, let's see, let's see, we're going through this list, thinning hair, oh, of course really yeah, I've never had hair, so I wouldn't know there's no difference.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thinning hair yeah, I I did because I'm in my 40s. Yeah, my, my hair started thinning yeah I noticed that in my 40s. Okay, thinning hair yeah, it's not as full as it was before, it's thin, it's yeah, definitely. And then you start losing hair at the front okay yeah, although mine isn't bad or pronounced yeah, but yeah I can't pronounce this word properly, but forgive me. Osteoporosis, that's the word no, that's to do with the bones, yeah no bones, yeah, no, and the joints yeah.

Speaker 3:

Unless you count, like when you raise your hand it clicks or something. I don't think that's osteoporosis, or when you're doing exercise, you just say, well, it can't care of that.

Speaker 2:

That's generally old age.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

Okay, irregular heartbeat.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I used to experience that before, but it stopped that was when I thought maybe it was the coffee, but it was the perimenopause. But that has stopped weight gain of course because your metabolism is no longer as it used to be, so you're gaining all the weight no matter what you eat, it's like it just piles on, it doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, and it's so difficult. Yeah, with the weight loss.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it is hard waking definitely what do you do to help yourself? Well, I try because I remember you, years ago used to do a lot of running, so what happened to that?

Speaker 3:

I think menopause laziness, yeah, because, um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether it's because of my work schedule as well, okay. I just can't find the time.

Speaker 2:

To do the exercise.

Speaker 3:

And I'm so tired in the mornings I used to. Mornings are my exercise, it's my exercise time. That's when I because I have a clear head I can. But I'm so tired in the mornings now that I don't even want to get up from bed. So exercise is not.

Speaker 2:

It's not. It's not, but I think it's.

Speaker 3:

It's something that one should do more, even now, at this stage of life I think it's really important, because they say that if you don't use up, use your muscles, if you don't exercise, you lose muscles especially at this age now. So I think one should really revisit this exercise there I think it's really important, yeah, yeah for me.

Speaker 2:

The only thing I think works for me in terms of weight gain is intermittent fasting I that's the only thing that seems to be working now I can't seem to lose weight. Any other weeks an exercise.

Speaker 3:

I'm just like you I'm not consistent weight loss is 80% the food you eat and 20% exercise. Isn't it so? If we can work on the food, aspect and then do the exercise, or the exercise here and there it should help. It should help yeah, it should help it should help.

Speaker 2:

Okay, memory laughs. Shall we go down? Let's go down that road.

Speaker 3:

I think this is a big one if I see you on the road one day and I forget your name I forget my name sometimes.

Speaker 2:

I wake up in the morning I'm thinking what's my name again? No, for real, this is not even a lie. What's my name? What did I wear yesterday?

Speaker 3:

I'm telling you, I'm telling you, like I'm even thinking, what did I wear yesterday? What did I wear? Yes, what did I eat yesterday? I remember I think it was a couple of days ago. I was trying to look for somebody on whatsapp to send them a message and for the life of me, I just could not remember the name of this lady. And I'm not supposed to forget her name. It's not a name I'm supposed to forget, okay, but I just could not remember. So I had to pick up my phone and then started scrolling through the names and then the name came up and I was like, yes, this is the person. It can be scary, you know, it can be.

Speaker 3:

Actually, it's quite scary because I was thinking to myself what on earth is going on here? You can't even remember this person's name. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think that's what they call the brain, the brain fog. Yeah, yeah, I. Sometimes I find myself saying something, then I stop halfway and then I'm thinking what was I saying? Again that happens, what was I saying? And then my children started saying to me, mommy, but I told you this last week. And I'm thinking, uh-huh, I don't remember you saying it, mommy, I did. I'm like I don't remember. I'm sorry, I don't remember. I think the brain fog one is a big problem.

Speaker 3:

Personally, I don't know what one can do I don't know I I've started taking, like um, the fish oil. Okay, yeah, because I heard that works okay so I've started taking my vitamins and the fish oil quite seriously now. I take it every day but I don't know. But, um, yeah, I think we should invest in taking the necessary vitamins yeah but that brain because it's scary. Like when you think about dementia and things like that, your mind runs riot like why am I forgetting things? Why?

Speaker 3:

am I you know why am I spacing out like somebody, just like you said somebody could be speaking to you and you're like, oh, what was I saying just a minute ago?

Speaker 2:

there was you know, so yeah somebody was also suggesting um, I don't know the right pronunciation if it's ginkgo biloba or ginkgo biloba. Yeah, that that might help with um concentration. Yeah well I haven't tried it.

Speaker 3:

I don't know it might well it could be true, because I remember my dad like we send him. My dad swears by all these vitamins because we send him vitamins back home in nigeria, you know. So we send him these vitamins. I remember my half brother telling us once to stop sending him ginkgo biloba because it makes him he, he. I don't know what my father was doing at the time, but he was like that ginkgo biloba he's making him too a lot oh, okay, stop sending him biloba.

Speaker 3:

So it was like why? Why should we stop sending him ginkgo?

Speaker 2:

like yeah, okay yeah, so maybe there's some truth to yeah, so maybe there's some truth to that. Yeah, yeah, okay. Um, we're still going down our list. We'll soon be done with this list.

Speaker 3:

Concentration lapse oh yes, lapses, yes, concentration yeah okay.

Speaker 2:

So what do you do when you, when you feel like you're losing concentration, snap right out?

Speaker 3:

of it, snap right out, because I found that concentration was one was beginning to affect my work okay. So I had to kind of like snap, you know, like make conscious effort, like if I'm drifting or something else comes and it just takes away my attention. I just quickly switch back to what I was doing for me.

Speaker 2:

I was actually recently thinking do I have adhd. No, seriously, because my concentration level is just I'm doing something now I'm focused on it and then, in like 10 minutes, my mind is on something else and I'm I leave what I was doing and I'm doing something else, and then I'm like oh, actually.

Speaker 3:

You were doing this Two minutes ago.

Speaker 2:

So I started wondering Hmm, do I have ADHD? I don't want to give myself a name. I don't, I'm not. I don't want that, it's not my portion, but you know, it's just something that you start thinking. What's going on?

Speaker 3:

I think it's just the stage we're in, to be honest yeah focus on one thing, that's at the time at the time and then when especially when there are distractions as well, it's like I'm bored with this, I've had enough, let me move to the next one. And then you remember oh, I haven't actually finished what I was doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, focus, yeah, yeah, focus, focus, lack of focus? Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3:

Um brittle nails oh yes, brittle nails. Yeah, I just broke one before I came. Oh okay, they keep breaking off by themselves. Incontinence no, I'm not at that stage yet. Thankfully, dizziness, dizziness, no.

Speaker 2:

Okay, allergies no, no, no. And the last one on this list is body odor oh, no, no, no. Body odor no, not at all.

Speaker 3:

Not at all okay. As a matter of fact, I don't use like like. I used to use like roll on and stuff, but I don't actually use them anymore for a long time now. I don't use any of that okay.

Speaker 2:

So from my observation you answered yes to a lot of these things, so we can definitely say you are perimenopausal. Yes, I've accepted it. I heard something on a podcast yesterday and they were saying something which I think is very important and they said perimenopause happens. You can't fight it, so just understand what is going on and make that work for you. What would you say to that?

Speaker 3:

I agree yeah you can't fight like, for example, with the itching I've. I've was actually considering going to see my gp.

Speaker 3:

I don't know what they're going to say about it, but it's like something you have to accept and just work with so sometimes now I'm like when I'm about to sleep, I'm thinking, okay, this body's going to start itching now and then it will start. Could it be in your mind? It's not in my mind, it's no, it's this. It just starts itching and, um, yeah, it's not in my mind. Sometimes I'm not thinking about it, it's just like I don't know. It's like when my body is about to be in a state of rest and I want to sleep, I just start getting all this itchy feeling all over. Yeah, I think, yeah so what do you?

Speaker 2:

would you say to a woman out there who's just beginning to notice this? Um, some strange things happening to her? What would you say that she should be doing?

Speaker 3:

I would say go and speak to someone about it, speak to your gp about it, just to eliminate anything else yeah and just have that assurance and just know that you're not alone yeah everybody else, every other woman out there is experiencing it at one stage or another.

Speaker 2:

It's not anything that is new yeah, so they're not alone, really yeah, yeah, to speak up about it. Speak up about it. Um, I was reading also that, um, when people are getting to the age of 40, they should go and do like some kind of overall body check. What do you think about that?

Speaker 3:

I think it's good, because I didn't do that. I think it was you who mentioned it to me sometime a long time ago to go and do the check. But yeah, I think they should, it's important.

Speaker 2:

It's important Really just to check everything, be sure that everything nothing else is happening in the background that you don't know anything about, but in the workplace. I know they're talking about menopause a lot more in the workplace now, but do you think it's a good thing?

Speaker 3:

I think it is because, as a woman, you're going through so much. You know, depending on what your situation or circumstances are added to it, if you're going through depression, anxiety, it will affect your work. And if people in your workplace don't understand that this is the stage this person is at and this is why they're behaving the way they are maybe at work, maybe that thing is affecting their work then they won't be able to offer the right support for that person, because some of these symptoms can be quite debilitating. Is that the word? Can be quite debilitating, is that the word?

Speaker 3:

So, for example, if you're going through anxiety, severe anxiety, and any small thing that you do at work, maybe like a simple task, you might find difficult to do, or you might start overthinking things, you might have brain fog and miss things that you're supposed to do at work. So they need to know that. Well, maybe this is a stage that this person is at and let's try and support them. Might not be because they're not capable. It's because of what they're going through. Yeah, it's not an excuse not to do your work, but yeah, it's good for the workplace to know to know, but the thing is, a lot of us women don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2:

You are brave enough to come on here to talk about it and share your own personal experiences. A lot of us women don't want to talk about it. You are brave enough to come on here to talk about it and share your own personal experiences, but a lot of women don't want to talk about it. So how do we overcome that? How do we get women to start talking more about this, especially at work? Because, again, a lot of women carry on so much workload. They take care of their homes, they take care of their family and the children. Then they come to work and they do their work and all of that, and they don't take time to think about themselves and they just carry on. So how do we get past this, this?

Speaker 2:

Um, I don't know what the right, what is superwoman phase or superwoman? Uh thought, let me not put face, let's not use face. Super one thought we think we're super women and we can just do everything. So when we're even going through serious problems, even with menopause, we just carry on. How do you think we could get past?

Speaker 3:

that, um, I think we're doing the right thing at the moment speaking up about it. Those of us who can speak up about issues speak up about it so that other people out there who can hear, yeah, what we're seeing, um, educate, uh, like the younger generation as well, because as we're speaking about it now, they will begin to pick up, they will begin to hear, so that it's not as terrible for them as it is for us.

Speaker 2:

So I think speaking up about it, campaigning about it, will help the lord, bringing awareness to the issue to the issue and I think also maybe talking about all these symptoms have mentioned in detail, and even the some that we didn't mention. Like something that we didn't mention that I go through that I suffer from is cold sweats right so years ago I had a colleague at work who used to say to me I'm always cold, I'm always cold.

Speaker 2:

So I was thinking you're the time of your life when you should be talking about hot flashes, but you're talking about being cold all the time, and then I didn't really pay attention to it until it started happening to me. Really, I'm constantly cold. If I'm not hot for a few minutes, then I'll be cold most of the time and I'm thinking why am I cold? It was only recently I had somebody else talking about the fact that it's not just hot flashes, it's the cold flashes or whatever it's called. You feel cold, and for me also it varies. There are days when I'm just cold, the days when I'm hot for like 10 minutes, then I'm cold for 30 minutes, then hot again. It's like for 10 minutes.

Speaker 2:

I'm cold again for so it's like what is going on. So there's so many other symptoms and there's a colleague at work who said for her it has something to do with her mobility. It affects her mobility, so she can only walk. She doesn't walk consecutive days because for some reason it affects her mobility. So I think we need to talk about more of the symptoms.

Speaker 3:

So many symptoms out there. Sometimes it differs from one person to another.

Speaker 2:

I've never heard of cold sweats not sweats, but cold flashes or flushes or whatever it is. But it's just that cold, just feeling cold, and sometimes my husband is like, well, he's hot, well, he may be hot, I am cold, I am cold. Everybody else may be hot, I am cold, I, I am cold. Everybody else may be hot. I am cold, you know, and I think that's what it is, I that think about yourself, yourself, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think a lot of women don't think of themselves. They don't. They don't take care of themselves. How do we get women to start taking care of themselves better? I don't know um, you're right.

Speaker 3:

Like women don't tend to speak out, I think it's just to encourage people to speak out. Really you, I mean, because if you don't tell me what you're going through, I wouldn't know what to say to you yeah to overcome or to point you in the right direction. So I think we need to encourage ourselves to speak out yeah um, you know, everybody else is everybody. A lot of women are going through what we are going through so together as a collective.

Speaker 3:

If we begin to speak out about it, then definitely something will be done and people will pay attention to what we're saying. So I think it's really important that women begin to speak out about what they're going through.

Speaker 2:

But how can women take better care of themselves? What suggestions would you give to women to help them take better care of themselves?

Speaker 3:

Well, I read a lot, lot I research a lot like any small thing. I'll just go and research help is not google sometimes, no, but I've actually learned to stay away from google when it comes to health. Yeah, because I remember an episode I had where I went to google and it was like what on earth?

Speaker 3:

what are we talking about? What is google google showing me? Since then I decided no, no, no, I'm not gonna go to google anymore. Um, speak to other people about it, I mean read up on stuff, like if you have any questions, go to your gp yeah read up um ask other people what they. You know what they're doing like, depending on what it is, what issue you're trying to tackle. Yeah, see if there any. There's any other person out there going through the same thing?

Speaker 2:

and speak to them yeah, yeah, you know, I also think we need to rest as well. Rest more. A lot of women don't rest, that's true, we're so busy yeah sometimes busy doing nothing, yeah yeah, that's.

Speaker 3:

That's really an important one, so we need to take time yeah, to rest yeah I wanted to ask you, go on holidays? Oh yeah, that's my thing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's my. Now you're talking what I like to hear that's my thing go on holidays, spa days and all sorts exactly we need to, really we need to do more of those things you know for ourselves and just relax and refresh and rewind.

Speaker 3:

Yes, refresh, that's the word refresh and just relax and refresh and rewind.

Speaker 2:

Yes, refresh, that's the word Refresh. So we're fast coming to the end of the show, but I wanted to ask you about HRT hormone replacement therapy. I know you're not a GP or medical person, but have you heard about that and what are your thoughts on that? I don't know much about it.

Speaker 3:

I've heard about it and I know two people who are on it and it's working for them. So the first one, I think she started taking it a couple of years ago. The second one started this year and she told me that it's working well for her. Because, she had I don't know. She just suddenly just fell ill and she said she just didn't even understand what was going on with her and so it was menopause, you know. So she started taking HRT and he said it works for her at first she didn't want to take it.

Speaker 3:

She asked a lot of us, you know, like we're in a group together and she was like asking us oh, has anybody taken it before? This is why I said it's good to speak up. You know, has anybody taken it before? What is it like? So it's good to speak up. Yeah, you know, has anybody taken it before? What is what? You know what it, what is it like? And so it took her a while to accept that yeah but then she's taking it and she says it's working really well for her.

Speaker 2:

Okay, some other people it doesn't really work for them okay, because I I don't know much about it, but what I've heard is that some people say has side effects and stuff like that. So I don't know much. But so, at the end of the day, really you need to do what works for you. Speak to your gp and find out what works for you. Yeah, so they say perimenopause can last for up to 10 years. Tell me how you're gonna and how you're going to spend this years well, I've been in that state since my 40s, so okay it's no, although at the moment it's just really mainly the night sweats.

Speaker 3:

In terms of physical symptoms, symptoms so I'm kind of like used to that. But the night sweats it's not all every time.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Sometimes I go periods where nothing happens, and then sometimes it comes back and I'm drenched, you know, so yeah, I think I've learned to live with it. Yeah, to be honest. I think you mentioned it before. Like you just have to find ways to make it work for you. I don't want to think you're the one now making me think oh my god, that's not the purpose.

Speaker 2:

I just want to put a realistic spin on it one day at a time.

Speaker 3:

One day at a time.

Speaker 2:

Okay, one day at a time. Yes, one day at a time. But, um, for me, when I when I first thought about, or when I first used to hear about, menopause, I thought it was all, just, oh, one day the period would stop and that's it. That's all I thought it was. I never knew that there was a period of like 10. Yes, for some people it could even be more. A lot of people out there may still not know that there's a period that you go through first before you actually hit the main menopause thing. There's a period of perimenopause, then menopause and then post. So for each stage there are symptoms and stuff like that. I just thought it just stops. Hallelujah, thank you god, that's all over. Never knew. So I think we need to educate people more and more about these things, the symptoms and all this, whatever, and just yeah, make the most of of the situation and find, get help.

Speaker 3:

If you need help, I mean, if it's something that's causing you so much, yeah, stress and all, get help definitely I think as much as possible and I think, like you mentioned earlier, like in terms of our own children, when they're getting to that age, I think we should have that conversation with them, because nobody had that conversation with us, so we didn't know yeah.

Speaker 3:

So I think we should make it a duty to speak to our children when they get into that age. Yeah, about the symptoms, like things that they might be experiencing Because they might not even know. No, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you know, what you just said just reminded me. There's a scripture in the Bible that says something about the older women teaching the younger ones. So I'm just thinking that's probably that's a scripture that we can also bring into play. Just teach them, tell them about all those things.

Speaker 2:

What we've experienced the only thing, looking back now, which just makes me realize, okay, my mom was going through menopause then was the fact that it got to a point where my mom just did not like to cook for anybody. She wasn't cooking nothing. She she used to love to cook when she was a lot younger. She was always cooking one meal or the other, we always had all kinds of things. And then it got to a stage where she was like I ain't cooking, I ain't cooking, I owe you lunch, the rest of it is such. But how did I know it was a sign of menopause? Because I'm there now and I'm like I ain't cooking, sort yourselves out. Funny enough, I was listening to a podcast again I think it was the same one I was listening to yesterday and somebody the lady on there said the exact same thing. She was like for her, no more cooking, she doesn't want to cook. You lose the zeal you know. So it's really funny there's so many and I think talking about that.

Speaker 3:

That's why our men as well. They need to be aware. Yes, to speak to the men about this yeah, I remember there was somewhere there was a couple's thing we did that we attended a couple of years ago and the main topic the gynecologist. One of the couples that came as a gynecologist and he did a whole session on menopause and what we may go through. So the husbands and the wives were there listening to this. So it's like, oh, ah, oh, so this is what it is.

Speaker 3:

Oh, light bulb moment and the wives were like feeling proud on top of you see there's nothing wrong with me, it's just menopause or perimenopause or whatever, or postmenopause, it's not just me.

Speaker 1:

You see, it's not just me it's one of the pauses, so I think yes, it's good to educate the men as well.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

I think, yeah, yeah, it's very important, because if they know what to expect, then they know how to support. Exactly they know how to support, and I think that this is not just something that we should be taught, I mean, should be talked on shows like this, but even even in marriage counselling, even as early as marriage counselling, they should be telling people, couples, things like this.

Speaker 2:

There'll be stages in the life of your wife. For the men, especially, even the women at that point might need to hear it as well, because they may not even know. There will be stages when your body will do all kinds of things. Your hormones will be all over the place, all kinds of things will be going on in your body. So be prepared, you know.

Speaker 3:

I think that's absolutely true, especially for the woman as well. If you're that young age, whatever stage you're at, if you're not already experiencing it, it then it's something that is new and you might not know like your body is changing and you're also wondering what's going what's going on?

Speaker 2:

yeah okay, so we've come to the end of the show, but I always like to end the show on a note of hope. Yes, so what would you say to anybody out there going through well, maybe like you 10 or 15 of the 34 symptoms you went through? Or even if it's just one, what would you say to encourage them?

Speaker 3:

Know that you're not alone is the first thing I'll say and then there is help out there. There is help, there is help. So go and speak to somebody about it, speak to your GP and yeah there is help out there.

Speaker 2:

You're definitely not alone. Lots of women are going through all sorts of things and seek help. Thank you so much, bessie, for coming on.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2:

It's been a wonderful time.

Speaker 3:

It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. It's been a pleasure having you and I've laughed so much. I don't know if I've laughed this much on any other show, but I've laughed so much on this show. Yeah, we have to make it light-hearted, even when you're going through something that's like, what's this? We have to find the fun in it and just, yeah, get on with it.

Speaker 2:

so, thank you, so so much, really grateful for your time and hope to have you on again sometime soon to share something else with us. Absolutely thank you. Thank you all for joining us again today. It's been another episode of navigating, theating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Hopefully we'll have you on with us again sometime soon. Take care and God bless. Thank you.