Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Finding Strength in Loss: Lanre's Journey of Fatherhood and Faith

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What happens when the anchor of a family is lost? In this episode, we explore the profound impact of fatherhood and the challenges of navigating life without a father figure. Join us as we speak with Lanre Adefihan, a talented keyboardist and worship leader, who opens up about his own journey following the loss of his father. Despite the heartache, Lanre shares how the values of resilience and perseverance that his father instilled continue to guide him. This episode intricately weaves Lanre's personal anecdotes with a broader conversation on the societal implications of fatherless homes.

The strength of a family deeply rooted in faith is a central theme as we listen to stories of Lanre’s mother, the spiritual cornerstone who guided her children through periods of adversity. Her unwavering devotion laid a foundation of strength and resilience, showing how faith can serve as a beacon during life's storms. We tackle the tough realities that many families face, emphasizing the importance of a consistent, faith-driven upbringing. The episode underscores the pivotal role of male mentors and how they help fill the void left by absent fathers, offering young men a path away from destructive influences.

As we wrap up our conversation, we reflect on the evolving concept of fatherhood, where love, understanding, and vulnerability are key components. Through an enlightening discussion, we consider how societal norms around masculinity often hinder emotional expression, yet embracing these emotions can lead to healing and growth. Learn about the qualities that define a strong father figure and discover how spiritual devotion and trusted relationships can serve as a compass in navigating the complexities of masculinity and mental health.

You can contact Lanre here: 07506762370

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Tele:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today I've got my brother in the house, Lanre, and we're going to have a really interesting conversation today. Lanre, I've known him for a few years now. He's a notable keyboardist and an awesome worship leader. But I'll let him introduce himself and then we'll take it from there. So, Lanre, please say hello to everyone and please tell us a bit more about yourself.

Lanre:

Hi everyone, my name is Lanre Adefihan. Well, people call me Olan as well. So Olanrewaju, the first four letters of my name, Olanrewaju. Fun fact, if African parents love you, they give you a long name, hence the name Olanrewaju. It means that the future is bright. So yeah, you know, it ties in with that scripture that I have a plan for you which gives you a hope and a future.

Lanre:

So again, a prophetic name in that sense. But anyway, I'm a worship leader. Singer-songwriter Tele, I've known you for a couple of years. We have met at different gatherings. And it's a real privilege to be here today. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to what we'll talk about.

Tele:

So, yeah, here goes. Okay, thank you very much. And so today we're going to be talking about fatherhood, we're going to be talking about masculinity and how men handle challenges, because I think a lot of times we hear what women go through, we hear how women handle their challenges but we don't get to hear the male perspective.

Tele:

And I'm always happy when I have a man in the studio with me to just hear their perspective on things. And I remember we met recently, in November, and during the conversation we were having at that event you did mention that you lost your father at a young age. So I just wanted to ask what were your earliest memories of your dad?

Lanre:

Thank you. So one of my, I've got loads of fond memories with my dad. My dad was in the Navy. He wasn't well, by military training, you would expect that he was the strict disciplinarian right, but he always made time to play with us. He always made time to watch movies with us. He would watch war movies and he would explain them. It was so fun that when dad came home we heard ah everybody run to the door, daddy.

Lanre:

As soon as we heard the door. Mom was home. Everybody sat up because really she was married to the soldier but she was the disciplinarian, oh wow that's different.

Lanre:

In fact, there was one day that, uh, one of my brothers was like, when the horn came and dad was watching Tv with us in Parlour and they were like mom was around, he was like, oh God, mom was around, Dad was like, what, your mom? He kind of was so relaxed, he was out of character and it was like, oh sorry, that was our running secret, but anyway. So dad was that kind of person. He was a fun, loving person. He used to be a footballer.

Lanre:

In his younger age he was a coach for lots of people, young people at church, the church that he fellowshiped with. When he became born again, he sort of carried all of that with him. I mean, I met people after he passed away who would say to me your father was really helpful to me. He didn't know me from anywhere and I just told him my problem and he took it upon himself and made sure it happened. That's the kind of guy he was. So I mean, I have memories now of him teaching like children's Sunday school now it's in the class.

Lanre:

I'm just looking up it's like, oh, that's my dad, okay, and you know sort of the interactions with my mom. They were a wonderful couple together for the time that they had. I was just about turning 14 when he passed and, um, there was. There's just you know that void that happens. You just sort of you look back and there's nostalgia. I mean, I remember stories. I'll just tell them in sequence and feel free to stop me when you feel so.

Lanre:

Fun fact as I said, mom is a disciplinarian right, so dad's gone off for a conversion course. He's going to be a senior officer and then I think mom's told him something I he's come back home. He wakes me up it's almost 2 am and he's like get up read now my eyes are like bloodshot.

Lanre:

I'm tired. He says read. I'm like. I think mom told him, like your son's not pulling his weight, you have to talk to him. And I don't mean talk to him, I mean talk to him. So, as it's 2 am and I'm reading, he opens a file. It's his handwritten biography of himself, so autobiography. So I'm reading about him. He says well, born to indigent parents, his father was, uh, his late father was, uh, an ex-police officer, late police officer. His mother was a petty trader, so there were people of very, very poor means. But then he went to school. He's he got a scholarship to go through secondary school. He's got a scholarship to go to university. And he was like they had to tell him to wait behind at home for his younger sister to go in because they couldn't afford to send two people to school at once. So he was trying to say to me look, this is me, my story, why are you different from this? And I thought it was like uh, you know? Okay, wait for five minutes and go back.

Lanre:

When I started reading through and he wasn't budging at me okay, you're in trouble now just wake up, wake up but I can still hear his words in my, in my mind's ear, like sometimes when I'm at a crossroads or I'm thinking. I can still hear how he would encourage me and, you know, push me. Because, yeah, in that phase of life, you know, I was like my dad's doing this. You know life, you know how young children are just like, oh, my parents are doing it, well, it'll be fine, but he could see in me that there was potential to do more. So, you know, and mom would tell, you in your face.

Lanre:

Dad will find a way of pushing, and it was a good balance between the two of them, because you needed that fire on your backside and then a gentle coach to push you.

Tele:

Funny that's different. In many families it was the other way around. I know, the mom was the one always doing cushioning, the cushioning of the dad.

Lanre:

This is the switch right. Dad had the military side of him, but he had that on lockdown. If you're in trouble with mom, dad can save you.

Tele:

Okay.

Lanre:

If you're in trouble with dad.

Tele:

No one can save you.

Lanre:

No one can save you so he reserved that for the very extreme times and, trust me, we never really did get to see that. But, I'm grateful for having both of them in my life Because, especially since dad passed, having mom there as a very secure, strong rudder guiding the boat Because obviously you need she had to be strong and be a man and a woman at the same time.

Tele:

At the same time, fulfill both roles.

Lanre:

But just having her there just steadied the ship, you know. So when my dad passed, we lost my father and two of my siblings in the same incident and so it was a big.

Lanre:

If you don't mind, yes, I will, I will do so so, um, we were away at secondary school, my elder brother and I, and um, it was the night of the world cup 1994, the world cup final, and um, they just had a conversation in the living room and they were going. So he went out to refill the generator to put it on for the game. So back in Nigeria there were lots of power outages and people had to refill generators and I think during that scenario of refilling somebody brought a candle close and it ignited and there was a fire in that moment and my dad went back into the fire to sort of get my younger brother out, who's passed on to Glory now. And so in that moment everyone rushed to try and help and all but they were taken to hospital. So my younger brother was in the theatre that night.

Lanre:

It was a Muslim trauma doctor that was from the military doctor who was working trying to resuscitate him. He was fine and you know, the drips were in and he just began to look past them and said the gate is open. The gate is open. Jesus, don't leave me.

Tele:

The gate is open this was from a muslim.

Lanre:

This was no, the muslim doctor was telling us the story because my brother was saying this in the hearing of the nurses, doctors, all the people are gathered around and were like there's no gate here, like what are you talking about? It's like the gate is open, Jesus don't leave me. And he reaches out his hand and pulls out the drip and passes away peacefully.

Tele:

That's your brother, that's my brother.

Lanre:

Now, when he does that, the trauma doctor says to us like he's been treating burn victims for years and years. He says says this is not synonymous with what you expect. Yeah, they should be contorted because of the pain. They should be, but he was looking beyond something that was going on physically around him. He had found peace yeah and for him that was really marked.

Lanre:

You know, he is not christian so he was like this is not what I expected. So my mom obviously couldn't they didn't want to tell her because she was like, oh, this is a lot to process.

Lanre:

So they were like okay, well, your dad will be better. They needed to fly them abroad, to Germany, to do some plastic surgery for him and my younger sister. So it was in the process of. There was a fuel shortage, so by the time the aviation fuel was got for the private plane was chartered, my pastor was waiting with him in the ward, my bless, my dad and I was sitting up to speak to his senior officers and all he was fine, it's just the burns. And so he felt this presence and he was telling us the story now and says he kind of leaned outside to sit outside the room and then god started to tell him I'm allowing this. And he's like allowing what? And he said I'm allowing this, I'm. And he was trying to explain. He was like God, what are you on about? And he walks into the room moments later and my dad had passed and he's like, okay, now we kind of have to tell his wife, son's gone, this.

Lanre:

So when they told my, they put my sister on a plane and they flew out to Germany. Um, they told my mom about my dad, but before they even opened their mouth she said look, take me to where my son is. She had seen a premonition of him in white and he was saying to her mommy, I'm fine, like I'm fine. He was veiled white, saying to her I'm fine. So she was like okay, is he okay? Like take me where. So when the agent told her she's like okay, I kind of knew but I couldn't really say but now that you've confirmed, can I speak to the rest of the family? And then they began to unfold. So it's like okay. And one of the things she said to them was leave me alone, I just want to worship.

Lanre:

And we had just come back at that time from school. Because we came back the next day and we just we're not in our own house. People were around like we're piecing together what had happened, trying to be strong. It's like everyone would say, oh, you can't really. And just watching mom's demeanour obviously she's it's a lot to take on. But her faith now even became more central for her and for all of us at that time, because, think about it, it's a big change that's happened in that moment and for her. You know, just navigating the chapters that have happened since then, and how God has worked with her and through her, it's a joy to look on. She came through that rallied us together, put us all through school, graduated everything. She became a pastor, went to everything. She became a pastor, went to Bible college, became a pastor, retired now from being a pastor and stuff. But obviously the faith built up over time. So I'm really grateful how God has sort of worked in those things to bring us through.

Tele:

Can I ask a question? Yes, Because you were Christian. Yes, You've been going to church worshipping and all of that. Your father was in ministry. Your mom obviously was a very prayerful person. Yes, Did you feel that what happened to your family was unfair? Did you think? Because I want to understand that, because sometimes it's easy to gloss over these things but what? How did you react to?

Lanre:

that Okay.

Lanre:

So first things first.

Lanre:

Like we weren't always born again Christians, my mom was the first to come out of the sect that we all sort of married into and all of that, and then she took us with her and obviously the journey of finding God is different for everyone.

Lanre:

You can be in a church that is a believing church, but if the practices you know don't align with how you are seeking to follow God, you have a prerogative to seek God in the sense that, oh, we say we are this, but behind the scenes perhaps the practices aren't what it is. And so she made a step to come out and to seek God in a Pentecostal expression that caused a rift, no doubt in the family expression. Yeah, that caused a rift, no doubt in in the family. And eventually God will work on my dad also to come out of that movement and to be in the same movement where we were at the time I'm not mentioning names so that nobody gets brands and stuff but the more important thing is that everybody knew there was a change in the family's dynamic in the life, like you can see a positive trajectory.

Lanre:

They could see that these people actually know God and love God and this is how they live. So it was a puzzle for everyone to say how is it this family that this happened to? I mean people just like no. But then again you look in life it's like if it wasn't us, who could it be? I mean, nobody would say, oh yeah, I volunteer my family for tragedy.

Lanre:

Bad things happen to good people yeah and likewise good things happen to bad people. That's the nature of life. It's hard to accept in the moment because you miss these people. This is your family, this is a bye-bye that you're saying and you know you're not going to speak to them until you know the resurrection. This is, you know, the life, the hereafter. But in the moment it's hard to process. I mean, I I fought back tears, so many tears, but I had to kind of be strong because obviously mom's dealing with a lot you can't add your own to everything that's going on, so you kind of have to.

Lanre:

As nigerians, we say give yourself brain yeah but in that moment it was hard to process. But again I knew that, I felt the comfort of knowing that God was with us, even though it was a trying time like I can't tell you, of many days. Obviously, now widowed, she's the only breadwinner where there was shortage of food, things to, and then mom would just mom had a very practical approach our morning devotion. We always joke about this morning devotion will start at 6 am till the spirit leaves us and we're going to school.

Lanre:

Yes, we would we would compose a song. We would ask from a scripture that we read we'll compose a song you had to compose a song that's grandma.

Lanre:

I mean, there's songs that if I, if I called my brother now and I sang the song to him, he would sing along and tell you yeah, this is mommy Adefihan. That was her method, but it built our faith. There's scriptures that we know now because she always rehearsed those scriptures. And then we'll finish. There was no food in the house. We'll finish morning devotion at 7 am. We'll hear a knock. Someone would say oh, I don't know, I'm feeling a bit embarrassed, but I just have this leading to bring this yam to you or this quarter bag of rice, or this little envelope, and there will be money in it. We didn't ask anybody.

Tele:

God was providing.

Lanre:

That's just it. We had this thing. We never wear it on your face. We just never have this thing of ah, please, we will pray to God, mom will go out. Just never have this thing of ah, please, we will pray to God, mom will go out. You know, when there's no food, you convert it to fasting, so but then she would pray in faith, she would speak the word declared and she'll go out. And when she comes back home how we know God has answered is there's foodstuffs in the car. How did that happen? It's a miracle. Somebody came and did and, and that's how it was very practical. So, again, God could use a very difficult situation to mold out of that situation something beautiful. But it's hard in the moment.

Tele:

And.

Lanre:

I really thank God that he didn't take both parents. At least he left us a mom who was a praying mom, who was spiritual and understood the assignment was spiritual and understood the assignment.

Tele:

So how did you now grow without your father in the house? How was growing up without your dad? Because? Why I ask this is because I was listening to something and they were saying that, well, there are two views on this 60% of young men who get into trouble, one view says it's 60%, another one says it's 90% Of troubled young men are men who get into trouble are men who come from homes where either the father is dead or is absent for one reason or the other. But you grew up well into a fine young man, so how? And your siblings too, so how? How did that happen without a father figure in the house?

Lanre:

that's a very, very valid question. I've seen those statistics again and, yes, I can relate to those statistics. But there are a number of factors that are not the same for me than for other young men, which would be a late father or absent father or something. Is in the fact that I have a mom who already knew that the outcomes were challenging? I mean this marriage and parenting is a two-people sport. It's difficult already enough for two people. How much more when one person is suddenly taken away, there's all of the emotion, the grief, the challenge that that individual who's now in the driving seat has to take on.

Lanre:

And then I mean there are times when, yes, I have arguments with mom because she said, do this when you'd be like at 16. I thought that was a man.

Tele:

I think at 16 we all think that we all grown up, we know everything and I'm like why?

Lanre:

what was I on some cheap vitamin c or something? What was I thinking about? Because there are certain things that they're precious, that a parent has to undergo to make sure that everything is provided. The last thing they want to be dealing with is having to prove to you, get you to toe the line. But I think the advantage for us was the foundation that was laid in Christ, knowing that, okay, we're living by biblical principles. And you know children have this antenna, that you know the hypocrisy antenna. If you say, do as I do, but you don't do, children will call you out. But we had a mom who was doing what

Lanre:

she said and so it was hard to gain, say If she said fast, she was fasting. That was her thing, you know. If you said, okay, we're praying for this long, that was it. How did I know Psalm 23? The If you said, okay, we're praying for this long that was it?

Lanre:

How did I know Psalm 23? The Lord is my shepherd and shepherd. How did I learn it? Please just ask me. One morning she wakes me up. It's not even morning, it must have been like 1 am and she's like, Dad had passed at this time. She's like come to my room. It's like okay, I'm in her room and she's like read. So I read Psalm 23. I think she's going to let me go after reading it and she says, no, read it again. Like okay. So I read it a second time. And then she said she'd read it again. So I read it a third time and this time I knew that you just have to keep reading this thing until you memorize it. So I kept reading it, kept reading it, kept reading it. She's praying in tongues. She's just like okay, like you know, you just have to learn this tonight or we're not sleeping. So nights like that remind you. It's like you're in the go.

Tele:

Did she actually ever tell you why she did that?

Lanre:

Oh, yes, why. There were very many battles. Okay, so one of the things and again I want to be very careful with my words- yeah but when, when in families there's a rift, the enemy exploits these rifts yeah, to create things.

Lanre:

When my dad passed, you know, some of his one particular sibling in for instance was saying certain things that I thought weren't really like. You shouldn't be saying that about a tragic incident like this, and it was quite in your face what he was saying. I mean, he's a blessed memory now, but you think this is what we're up against. Nobody was talking about how do we help these children, how do we raise them?

Tele:

How do?

Lanre:

we make sure that there are no gaps? How do we look after our? Brothers Make sure they have food, so it was very clear to us as children this is what you're up against. You're pretty much on your own. So there is a war line drawn and the foundation of that was coming out of that movement.

Tele:

Okay.

Lanre:

That created a rift and we could see.

Tele:

Okay.

Lanre:

Like there created a rift and we could see okay like there was a particular person who turned up again. I'm speaking in code, but hopefully there's a very prominent family member who came and laid curses saying because we left this and this and this was going to happen.

Lanre:

So a couple weeks after that, this incident happens okay, so you're thinking to yourself, even if you know, you're not cross your mind, no matter what so there is a this, and it's not like the enemy is hiding behind it. The day I'm in your face saying so, you have to. And what? What do we depend on? It's God. So this is what I'm. This is my backup, God, my faith in God, my belief in God. This is his word. This is warfare, but you need to understand why we're doing it. We're not fighting individuals, we're fighting the spirits again, or behind their behaviour. But this is this is the line is drawn, so arm yourself.

Lanre:

Basically okay, the word and so that's why she did those things. Okay, and I I look back now and I was saying when we know the the the weekend away, I was reminded when we talked about this on the panel that I'm not even doing this much with my own children and I see how far we have come because of that time, and so when I got back I started. So we're going through Proverbs at the moment.

Tele:

We're on Proverbs 14. And we're going through every morning.

Lanre:

We'll read it. In fact, they're always telling me oh yeah, oh yeah, we read 13 yesterday, we're going 14 today, and so they'll read it and I'll ask them do you understand? And if they don't, we'll go over it. And yes, morning devotion is extending, but we make sure we get to school on time. So, yeah, I mean it's a journey and I see that sometimes, um, what we do today, we don't know how much impact it's going to have on tomorrow like.

Lanre:

Like what my mom did in the moment, then she probably wouldn't have seen. You know the outcomes it has had. Today my older brother is a pastor in Scotland you know. So it's like, okay, we're just carrying on the trajectory of the things that we have learned. Now I'm not saying that everybody has to be a pastor or this, but you know, we have faith in God and we can see it's a continuation from it started with mum, it's continued through us and hopefully our children and children's children will carry on in that legacy.

Tele:

Do you think that not having a father figure in your life can lead to trauma? Because I was reading that sometimes it does lead to trauma in some people. I know in your case, thank God you had a mum who kind of filled that role of your dad, even though she was a woman. But she took on that role and I think it was a good thing that she was a disciplinarian from the onset, so God knew what she was doing anyway, but do you think it could lead to trauma?

Tele:

Because I've read that a lot and I'm trying to understand how that works.

Lanre:

I think it can because we understand, I think it can. I think it can because we are as men. We are looking, always looking, for role models, even if we don't admit it. Um, and if there is a void, like you know, suddenly a father is taking, or the father's absent from the get-go, or the father is, you know, doing tendencies that maybe he's an alcoholic, a drug addict, whatever those put the onus on the child to find somebody else to emulate. Now, if he finds somebody in a gang, they're going to give him love like, they accept him and they pull him in. But you know, there's nothing good going to come out of a gang situation. He's going to repeat after them.

Lanre:

Yeah, so he's left something, but he's embraced something even potentially worse, or you know.

Lanre:

And and single parent family will struggle anyway financially because the income that should have been two people's income is now just one person he can only stretch so far, and then parents now find themselves having to do two jobs, two, three jobs, and then there's no way you can balance all of that look after yourself and look after all of the children without things falling out of the gaps. I mean, I even came across a YouTube channel talking about London and the gangs, and they intentionally target children, boys of single-parent families, and what they do is it's easy because the parent's supervision is often found to not be as adequate, because the one parent struggles to do a lot.

Lanre:

And with so little means and finance, you know things will fall. So they can easily see that this child isn't catered to because maybe their clothes aren't so up to date.

Lanre:

So they buy them sneakers they buy them food, they get them to warm up to them, and now they're looking out for them. So as young as eight, nine year olds looking out for you know drug dealers. And then, once you've done that to a point, then they take you in and then they ask you to supply, and then that just perpetrates a negative thing In terms of the father being there, it's a very important thing that the father should be present. The father may not be perfect and I'm not saying that all men are perfect. Big shout out to all moms. I big up my mom every opportunity I get.

Lanre:

Moms don't need to be perfect either, but everyone has a part to play in shaping the child. Moms, by nature, are nurturing, and they will do that. They can be disciplinarians too, that's true, but there's a certain authority that I found that men do have in these scenarios to set the tone. And it's even more remarkable when the man knows to surrender to God's authority. So God's the head of the home, and then the man, and then obviously his wife and the children, and bringing everybody along in that way it makes it a lot easier. I mean it's challenging raising parenting in any expression, but when the man is there, at least you compliment. There are times when men are tired too, and then the wife can come in. You know the good cop, bad cop, you know in scenario where my mom said to my dad, your boy isn't pulling his weight.

Lanre:

You know, they had that conversation. I wasn't there, and then he woke me up and said boy, you need to tell the line.

Tele:

So, yeah, yeah. So do you think that? And male mentors are necessary for young men. I think that in in churches this day they're trying to encourage that, but do you think it's? What? Do you think of that, having male mentors in church?

Lanre:

male mentors are absolutely necessary, um and I don't want to say um, in fact, mentors in general, whether male or female. Okay, obviously, some conversations are easier to have with a man if you're a guy, because you feel like they get you, they know you, they can anticipate your needs in that phase of life and they can embody what you're trying to become, and so you're having somebody that you aspire to like a mold. It just helps. Conversations are, you know, pretty much in sync.

Lanre:

I've had people who are raised by, like the women in their lives, grandmas and things who still turn out fine because, at the end of the day, what we're doing is leveraging the wisdom of the generation before us. We have made mistakes. There are certain things I've done that I wouldn't do anymore because I've come of age. I can look back and say okay, I made a mistake. So if I see a younger person who's willing to listen to the wisdom that I can bring, I can advise. I'm not going to lord it over them, but I can say you know what, I've tried it, I've done that, I got the t-shirt it doesn't pay you know, maybe try this and experiment different.

Lanre:

So yes, I would but again, just not every church is set up to have that proper structure for male mentors, but I think it's really necessary.

Tele:

Especially for young men whose fathers are not there for whatever reason. I just think that it might be a good idea to encourage, to have I don't know how to put it but to have a setting where men, such men, can at least find people, they can relate to it all.

Lanre:

Absolutely, I think it's necessary and well, okay, God help me. So I think every man who has passed through a certain phase of life needs to be able to look back and be a connector for the next generation bringing them along. I think that movie we saw that weekend, The Forge it left a mark. It left a mark, it left a mark on my heart and I think, yeah, it's something that I would definitely like to take up yeah, again, God helping me.

Tele:

Yeah, yeah. So what's your definition of a good father figure?

Lanre:

well, God is a definition of a good father figure. All of the fathers, are doing their best to sort of fit that mold. I think that a father is uh, among other things is, a leader, he's a protector, he's a nurturer. Trust me, even though men don't say I love you all the time they should we want them to?

Tele:

sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your train of thought. No, no, no, no, I hear of things called soft parenting.

Lanre:

So my daughter tells me like oh, dad, you heard of soft parenting.

Tele:

And I'm like how old is your daughter? She's 10. Oh wow.

Lanre:

And I'm like soft parenting Okay. Well, I'm not sure that works, but I'm willing to meet in the middle.

Tele:

What's the definition of soft suffering?

Lanre:

Oh, you know, you know, there's Gen Alpha right now, there's not Gen Z anymore.

Tele:

No, we're going back to the beginning again.

Lanre:

So with them? I think with them. Obviously, parenting is like you know. You can't always come down with a hammer and be very hard every time you have to find a way of telling me softly that I've missed the mark and come alongside me and help me. Whilst I agree that you know the generations before us, you know you could be hit by a flying slipper, sorry deliberately flying in your direction you could be hit with anything.

Lanre:

Anything could be weaponized. Whilst that worked, in the sense that he put the fear of God in us and respect and all of that, sometimes it was overbearing yeah, I get it so, so soft parenting, in my own definition, is meeting in the middle, where some things are calm, casual conversation. But when we have to repeat ourselves a lot, then we step the game up, so we start withholding things like you know you need to do that. Okay, you can't have that anymore, you can't have access to that, things like that.

Lanre:

Again, we're in a different climate than when we grew up yeah and so you know the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, followed by the fear of your dad and your mom. You know that parental fear is just is essential, because you know having restrictions in life. You might feel like you know you're being held back from doing things, but actually it's protection. There's a reason why you've got brakes on your car. Your car can do 220 miles per hour and that's good. God bless you if it doesn't have brakes and you're at 220.

Tele:

In trouble.

Lanre:

Yeah, you're going to the life beyond. So I think parental fear and respect in any group of people is like a safety net. It helps you stay on the straight and narrow. You may not understand it, but if you go with it. There's an adage that I read. It says if you do what you're told to do when you're told to do it, a day will come when you will do what you want to do when you want to do it. You'll do what you want to do when you feel like doing whenever you want to do it, because you have learned that control. So now you're able to repeat after yourself. And yeah, so lost a trail of my thoughts there. But basically, parenting respect for parents I think it's very essential, uh, in raising a child. So we came back to soft parenting and what it means to be a good parent in the child.

Lanre:

So we came back to soft parenting and what it means to be a good parent I think, a good father, I think being available is you know. So showing up for the job is like 50, 60 percent of the job already being there. You may not know exactly what I remember the day my daughter was born, I arrived at the hospital she had been born before, just before I arrived, because I worked outside of London and so I picked her up.

Lanre:

She was crying I was like how do I make her stop? How do I make her stop? And the um, the midwife just took her from me and started singing to her I was like, wait a minute, I can do that.

Lanre:

So I picked her up, sang to her. She stopped. She looked, I was like, oh yeah, there's a bond. So, okay, we carried on singing and for me it's like that was the first time, my first time, dad. Okay, so what do I need to do? Just be available. Then apply yourself, and every stage has its own different challenges. So when you think you've mastered it, then that child's developmental needs increase and then you realize, oh, I've dropped the ball. Okay, what more can we do? And it didn't used to be the thing that you do parental courses, but you know my wife will find materials, send them across. Of course they have to read, or at least pretend like I read, scheme through.

Lanre:

And yeah, just checking with the missus and see that you know that we're both tracking along. There's no definition in my mind of perfect, but being there there, applying yourself, getting really down, and it's something that I really read years ago was play, okay, we underestimate playing with our children, but actually, if you look at young along, a young cub, a young lion and and and the parental lion if you see their interaction.

Lanre:

They're just playing yeah that's where they learn how to hunt, that's where they learn life skills, but we don't really play with our children go to your room and well, you could be a disciplinarian.

Lanre:

You never get to really know that child because all you see is the compliant side of them. But you can also be vulnerable in play. Another thing is work. Now I'm getting to that point where they are the age where they can understand what I'm doing and I'm letting them in. I spent a weekend with my friend in North America and the way he raises his children is very intriguing to me. He actually just talks to them like they're grown-ups and listens for them and every opportunity is a teaching opportunity. And then you know, don't touch my laptop. No, no, no, that's the laptop. This is what you do with it. And I'm like, wow, and it's not rocket science. But you know, we never. We're not this entity. And then they're this entity. At the end of the day, we're just shepherding them. They're going to go on their own journeys but, for the time that they're there.

Lanre:

We should do like what Jesus did. Jesus brought the disciples in and they were doing everything with him, so their own apostle shape, even though it was three and a half years. It was so intense because everything he did, talked about, did, they saw and they felt, and I think if we can do that with our children, it requires some vulnerability yeah and obviously some more time. But if we can, I think we'll be so.

Tele:

That leads me into the next aspect of our conversation. You've just talked about vulnerability, so should a real man be vulnerable, and what does that?

Lanre:

mean. Well, vulnerability has stages and levels. Okay, and I think that, as the holy spirit helps us, he would reveal to us what we need to reveal to our children. Okay, because some lessons, you know, might be hard for them to take, because they look up to you as the hero you know. Oh, in every story you tell them you're always the hero. Oh, I did this. Oh, I was always first in my class. But there are times when you weren't first and there are times when you drop the ball and you know, okay, you're struggling with maths.

Lanre:

Okay, you know, fun fact, I didn't like maths either when I was at your age. I struggled too, but here's the thing I did and here's how I helped and this is what the steps I took. That's vulnerability as opposed to our parents generation, you know. You know they were always first in their class and then, when you meet their classmates, who was always first in their class.

Tele:

Who was actually first?

Lanre:

but you know.

Tele:

So the thing top of the class absolutely so.

Lanre:

But then the thing is, we also have to be careful, because sometimes you know children will be children, isn't it? Yeah you don't always want to. How can I say this? You want to just just show enough so that it doesn't like oh, and my daddy wasn't good in school, so then I've got leverage not to be, not to just show enough so that it doesn't like oh, my daddy wasn't good in school, so then I've got leverage not to be.

Lanre:

So you have to kind of find that balance and the Holy Spirit will really help you communicate. And every child is different. Some children just look at your eyes and they get it. Some children you have to spell it out and they're still children. It's just different ways or approaches that they have. Okay.

Tele:

So how does a real man deal with challenging situations? So I have a list of situations I'm going to ask. Okay, so there's a question here. It says men are taught to keep their emotions in check and not to be expressive. So how do you deal with challenges? How do you deal with grief, confusion, anger and conquering mountains? So if you could just take them in that order Grief, confusion, anger and conquering mountains, how should a real man deal with those situations, even though he's not supposed to be vulnerable or express himself?

Lanre:

So I would approach it like this If you view life as you're a man, you're a leader, the leader of every nation. If the nation's at war, the enemy's surrounded you, that's not the time to say ah, they're coming, they're coming, we can fight them, they're coming. Nobody's going to believe you at that point. So you're in your role as a leader, saying no matter how I feel, guys, there's a situation, this is going to be our approach, and be stern and deal with the situation, emotions aside okay and then, when you stepped out of that, you can process that.

Lanre:

Oh my God, oh my God, this is serious and there's panic, there's fear. Okay, God, where are you in this. Case in point? So, David and his cohorts, they went to fight. They come back to their home in Ziklag. It had been burned down.

Lanre:

Their wives, the wives of his men and their children had been carried away. Now the men wept to the point where they had nothing in them again and they talked of stoning him. Not a wise decision. This is your leader. What did David do? David said bring me an Ephod. He went and he worshipped and then he said God, do we pursue? And God says, yeah, pursue and overtake, for you, recover all. So if David had sat down and said, oh my God, me too I'm weeping because my wife's in pain, they would not have been able to recover all. And so, yes, we should not show emotion to a limit. Because of the role we are playing, there's an expectation that when things are shaking, you need to be solid.

Lanre:

You need to steady the ship. And then, yes, you would find a way to express, and that's why, um, worshiping is a very important aspect of christian living. Yeah, because it enables us to release emotions. When we worship, when we, when we sing, we're releasing tensions we never even knew we had, and I'm a worship leader, so I've kind of sit on my piano and just play and just express.

Lanre:

It's uh, it's an important, uh part of Christian living where you can just be alone with God or be alone with yourself and just worship on burden, and just because the burdens are a lot dealing with grief, I said to you about my dad.

Lanre:

It was hard to grieve in the moment because mom was dealing with a lot and so you would hide away, you would fight back tears and things. But you learned to process things in different ways and as God revealed himself to you with the experiences that you had, you know you were encouraged, your faith was encouraged. I don't know if you could ever grieve fully the loss of a dear one. You know some people 20 years after would just. You know, it just comes into it so. But I'm not saying that you know we will ever be at the point where we don't feel pain anymore but, it's just be measured, because God, God puts us in families for a reason.

Lanre:

As the head of the home, there's an expectation that you will be like a pillar, for want of a better word in that home, and so if you're panicked and you're worried, then where does everybody else go?

Lanre:

So yeah, showing emotions is good, because if you build everything up for too long you could become a powder keg. You could explode at the worst time possible. Because you're dealing with so much, it's just piling up. And women, I think, deal with this better, because women have girlfriends. They talk, they let it out and it's gone. Men don't talk if you call men's meeting and we're hanging out we're talking about football golf business but why is that?

Tele:

why is it that men? Don't share their feelings or what they're going through with other men? Why?

Lanre:

I think it's the word just escaped me but it's about how we raise, how we are raised, how we are socialized. I think it's that way because if you're socialized in a group where people behave a certain way, you automatically imbibe those ways and you behave that certain way.

Lanre:

And if you raise a child, whether male or female, in a certain environment where everybody's free and open and they talk like I said, that young man that was raised by his grandmas and aunties he'll be more open to express himself and to talk in that certain way which may not be deemed very masculine. You know when and I think times are changing men are a bit more open. Now I'm in a group, a whatsapp group, with my secondary schoolmates and people banter, they talk, and I know that they probably not be that way in their office, office lives or elsewhere they are. But because we're among friends, we've known each other since like eight, nine yeah, I mean, there's nothing that you are now that we it's like the sea finish kind of thing and I think I value their friendship more now than I would have thought, because these are people who knew you when you were nothing.

Lanre:

You know now. You know, thank God, God is doing something in your life, but there's no, you know, there's no need to raise shoulders to each other. We kind of have that same level, yeah so I think, yeah, it lots of trail of my thoughts, but again, just understanding that, um, where was I?

Tele:

we were talking about men and, um, let me remind you question, so I'll repeat the question again. So men are taught to keep their emotions in check and not to be expressive so how do you deal with challenges, grief, confusion and conquering mountains even anger, aha. So you've dealt with the grief one. Let's talk about anger how do?

Lanre:

you deal with anger anger is a bit of a anyway. Everyone's different when it comes to anger. Some people are able to um delay the response much easier than others, and I think that anger should be something that we don't act on in the moment because, whatever we thought we were going to do often usually when everything calms down often comes out overbearing and all of us need work.

Lanre:

All of us need work, myself included, but anger is something that is it that I think the bible says? Anger rests in the bosom of the fool, and it's it's. It's the thing, because we feel justified in the moment to give something back, but it's a lot more wisdom to withhold and process what's just happened yeah there might be a better way to do a comeback.

Lanre:

Um, so we did a study on meekness in my church bible study on meekness for a whole month. And what did? A study on meekness in my church bible study on meekness for a whole month, and what we found?

Lanre:

that the meekness is strength under control yeah so, basically, you've got the power to retaliate, but you choose, by the help of the holy spirit, to tone it down. Yeah, I've been privileged to see people who are like well on in their careers, but they're the ones who want to hold the door open for you. They want to come down to your level and I'm thinking you control millions. Why should you even matter that someone like me is in your presence and you still want to?

Lanre:

that's meekness it's not because they couldn't say you're fired or this but they kind of know that with great power comes great responsibility and you know. So, they, you. So that would be my way. I'm not saying I'm speaking like a saint. I'm going to walk out of here and one of your listeners is going to be like yeah, I'm good, no, no, no, I'm a work in progress.

Tele:

I think we're all a work in progress when it comes to conquering mountains, because a lot of men want to be especially for their families. They want to be, you know, especially for their families. They want to be the, the one at the top, like our parents were always number one in class. It's the same thing with the, with the fathers and the family. Yes, they want to conquer all the mountains, they want to make all the money and all of that stuff. So how should a real man manage that so that it doesn't affect the family dynamics?

Lanre:

so I think a real man should be should have a vision.

Lanre:

If you're going to say it in non-spiritual terms, should be ambitious in the sense that you should desire more than what you currently are, especially when you have a sense that there is potential for more. And I cycle back to my late dad. So my late dad had this vision that his family would live on four plots, or even an acre of land. They would have their own house, there would be a nice green driveway coming up to that, and at this time he was living in an accommodation that was provided by the military. But that was his plan. So for him he had a vision of where we were hoping to go.

Tele:

Yeah.

Lanre:

And he stuck with it.

Tele:

Yeah.

Lanre:

Now he started building that with my mom, with his wife, but he couldn't live long enough to live in it as complete. But guess what? We've lived in that house.

Tele:

We've done further extensions.

Lanre:

But that started with the vision. So, as you say, how do we navigate? A real man should have a vision that he surrenders to God and say God, look, this is what we're trying to do where you are, and if you commit our ways to God, he will sustain them. So but yeah, that's, that's my, my approach to you.

Tele:

So, before we finish, I just wanted to touch on something about mental health, men's mental health because I was reading something today and they were saying that a lot of men actually have a level of depression, and it's a latent level of depression, mainly because we expect so much from men. We expect them to be the one to carry the entire family and do this and do that and all. So how would you, as a man, deal with all the expectations from the family, from your community, from work, and all of that? Because you go to work, your boss expects you to perform, you come home, the wife is expecting stuff from you, the children are expecting all sorts from you. So how do you balance such things and how do you navigate such stuff?

Lanre:

I think in a real world, in ideal world, which doesn't exist in an ideal world. Knowing your priorities will be the thing, because you can't put everything in at once. But you know, sometimes we things shout the loudest so we give them the most attention. They may not be the most important thing in the long run, especially family and the needs of your children, next generation, your spouse even you.

Lanre:

Because if you fall down, you know who's going to carry on doing all the things that you do, and I think that it's sometimes an unreal or uneven expectation where we expect, because this person is able to do this, they should be able to do more. But again, you know to whom more is given, more is expected. That's just the nature of life here.

Lanre:

Life under the sun isn't fair yeah, in many regards but we pray that god keeps giving our men um the strength and the ability to continue, because the battles we're talking about, that we're fighting, are not even battles that started with us. If someone is born into poverty, that's a problem he inherited. If his parents were Bill Gates, for instance. He's got a whole set of best world problems.

Lanre:

So these are things we're talking about. If a man is able to succeed and he leaves inheritance for his children, then they have a slightly softer start, and so some of the problems that are weighing this particular man down now wouldn't even exist or at least, would be a different type.

Lanre:

So I would say that, for the man, prioritize your mental health, find time to unburden whether it's with fellow men, find a trusted brother that you can unburden with or just spend time in devotion with God and just pour out your heart. The psalmist wrote a lot of things he would talk about you know, I behold the wicked, how you prospered in your sleep. And this, this, this. He would complain to God, but it was his outlet to unburden himself. And then he would get up and say you know what, after all this, I feel better. You know, so I consider the end of the week and I say okay.

Tele:

So I think, as men, we need to do that, and our relationship with God will guide us on that journey. That journey. Thank you so much for coming on this show. It's been really, really interesting listening to you.

Tele:

I always like to end my show on a note of hope okay so, uh, what would you say to somebody listening out there, a man there maybe struggling with being a man, or struggling with being a father, or a young person out there whose father is probably not present for whatever reason? What would you say to encourage people?

Lanre:

if you're out there, God has a plan for your life and you may not see it or know it now, but he is several steps ahead of you. The only reason why you will not walk into that plan is if you stop trying. Because that determines the outcome already.

Lanre:

But if you keep moving ahead, one step in front of another. He will guide you to the people who need to help you along, and my life has been that way. God sent helpers to me that I couldn't even have phantom People who just decided to do so. I didn't even know them or we're not related in any way.

Lanre:

they just said no, God has asked me to do this for you and that was it, and they moved to the next step, to the next step, to where I am, and I know that he's also been able to use me in certain ways for others, so I'm confident that he has a plan for your life so please hang in there, and to you, that young father who's struggling with certain things, I pray that God's peace will come upon your heart and the holy spirit will guide you.

Lanre:

If you give yourself to him, he will guide you to navigate the troubles and travels that you're going through. Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning and that will be your testimony. On the day of joy, you'll look back and say God, I thank, I thank you because you brought me through. Nobody else can take the credit for it.

Tele:

God will bring you through. Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure having you on the show Really grateful.

Tele:

Thank you everyone for listening to Navigating the chapters of challenge with Tele and if you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends, your family. If there's a young man out there you think needs to hear this, please share it with him. And yeah, hopefully you'll be with us again on the next episode and we love you.

Lanre:

Thank you. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, thank you.

Tele:

Thank you very much.