Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Transforming Self-Worth and Inspiring the Next Generation

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This episode explores the deeply personal journey of self-esteem through Temi Agbaje's experiences, highlighting the impacts of trauma, social media, and the importance of self-love. The conversation emphasizes practical steps towards healing and the significance of community support in reclaiming one’s worth. 

• Temi shares her background and life events impacting her self-esteem 
• Discusses the signs of low self-esteem 
• Highlights the importance of self-love and its misconceptions 
• Explores coping mechanisms such as affirmations and journaling 
• Emphasizes the role of therapy in personal development 
• Discusses the negative effects of social media on self-esteem 
• Introduces the Butterfly Foundation for Girls and its mission 
• Encourages compassion and understanding in the journey of self-acceptance.

You can reach Temi on Instagram @ ButterflyFoundationforGirls
Book mentioned- Becoming Me. A Short Guide On Developing Self-Esteem For Girls-   
https://amzn.to/4j3y5Mb

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Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today. I've got my friend Temi in the house with us, and today's topic is a very important one that we're going to have. Before we go into the topic, I'm going to ask Temi to introduce herself, but before she introduces herself, I want to say something about Temi. She's the author of the book Becoming Me, a short guide on developing self-esteem for girls, and she's also the founder of Butterfly Foundation for Girls. Temi, tell us a little bit more about yourself, please.

Speaker 3:

Hello, hello. Thank you for having me here. It's an absolute pleasure. As you said, my name is Temi Atoki- Agbaje. I'm married with two kids. I live in Kent and I work for the NHS, currently in the HR field.

Speaker 2:

And, yeah, I'm hoping along the line I'll tell you a bit more, but that's kind of a brief intro into who I am. Thank you so much for coming. Temi. And Temi's being here was just absolutely orchestrated by God. I met Temi for the first time, I think we've crossed paths several times but we never actually really got talking. But we eventually met in November of this year at an event called the Whispering Hearts event and at that event Temi was called up to pray.

Speaker 2:

And in the middle of Temi praying, something just dropped in my spirit invite her to the podcast. And I'm thinking, oh God, Tele here you go again. I'm like, oh God, okay, well, let me not argue with this, let me just do that. And I walked up to Temi and I said I just feel led to ask you to come onto the podcast. And immediately Temi said yes. And I was like, okay, that must be God. For her to have just said yes, straight away, that must have been God. So I'm really grateful for this opportunity, for what we're going to discuss, because it's a very, very important topic, I feel, and today's topic is about Self-esteem, Self-esteem, and Temi is going to tell us her own story, her journey into self-esteem, becoming somebody who has self-esteem and how this journey started and everything.

Speaker 2:

Issues with low self-esteem, where did that start from? And stuff like that. So, temi, I'm just going to go straight into it. Where did this issue of low self-esteem start from? Tell us your story.

Speaker 3:

Okay, yeah, I'll be happy to. So I don't remember the exact time, but I do remember that, you know, from the ages of zero to ten or before ten years old, I had a really really good life actually. You know, I had a really really good life actually. You know, my dad was a lawyer, you know, very successful lawyer. My early memories were traveling around the world, you know, taking, you know, lovely holidays, you know, going for parties. It was a good life that I can remember. And my mom was a fashion designer, a homemaker as well, so she was doing her own thing, my dad was doing his thing, you know, and everything was great. And I was the last child, so obviously I was absolutely spoiled as well, with all of that love and attention. And, yeah, I went to a really good school back in Nigeria, you know we had people with British students coming into school, so I spent most of my time with, you know, british nationals. So it was a really multicultural environment I grew up in as well, so it was really really nice.

Speaker 3:

But unfortunately, I lost my dad in a tragic car accident when I was around 10. And you know, my whole world changed in that moment in so many ways. And I think that was the beginning of this journey of low self-esteem, as referenced in my book. I still remember one time when I tried to help a friend who had vomited in a swimming pool and as I walked to her to help her, while I was in the pool as well, and she kind of said no. And that was one of my earliest memories of thinking, oh, what was that? I don't feel like I'm good enough to be with her or to be next to her, and that really stuck.

Speaker 3:

And even as a young child, my aunties would say, oh, do you have inferiority complex? I never quite knew what that was, because I always felt like people were better than me. I always didn't want people to come to our house. I felt like, oh, they were always better. So that was because I always felt like people were better than me. I always didn't want people to come to our house. I felt like, oh, they were always better. So that was the start, you know. And things progressed from there.

Speaker 2:

So, but what made you think that they were better than you? What gave you that impression that they were better than you? You said you kept thinking people were better than you. Why? You had your dad, taking you all over the world. Not many people had that. Yes.

Speaker 3:

It didn't make sense, and that's the thing with low self-esteem. I think people try to rationalize it and sometimes you can't. It was just there and I was just acutely aware that I didn't like myself. I just felt I wasn't good enough. I felt people were better than me. I didn't like myself. I just felt I wasn't good enough. I felt people were better than me. I felt like my friends were richer than me. And things got worse when my dad passed and financially things became a struggle. So it became like a self-fulfilling thing that oh yes, now they are better than you, because now you can't travel anymore, you can't afford these expensive holidays. Life has changed. You're still in the old house. You were you. You had planned to move to this mansion and suddenly that needed to be sold to pay off debts after he passed.

Speaker 2:

So life then became quite quiet, static and lonely and lonely yeah, okay so when you were going through this, did you ever speak to anybody about how you were feeling at this time?

Speaker 3:

It's a good question, I think, because I am the last. I didn't, because oftentimes, as the last born, decisions are made for you. You are seen but, you're not heard, and I think I just went through my teenage years really really quiet. All I remember at that time is life just being very quiet, with me stuck in my head because things were happening around me. My mom was trying her best to take care of three kids, um going back to work to carry on with her law profession, you know paying school fees, so you know asking me how I am really was not on the cards.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you couldn't speak to your older ones about it. Was there a big gap between you and them?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's two years between each of us, but I think that each of us were dealing with the trauma in different ways. So, and to be honest, it's not till later years that I was able to put text to what I was feeling. At the time, I just felt like, okay, this is life. But it's only later that I realized that actually, there was something really deep going on within me that I could not even verbalize yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So you touched on something which I wanted us to go back to that swimming pool story. When I read your book and I read that story, I'm thinking to myself who in their right mind would see somebody in a swimming pool in vomit and actually volunteer to help that person? What was going through your mind at that time?

Speaker 3:

So that is a really good question, and I think that goes back to why I was really impacted by low self-esteem. I'm a natural empath. I pick up things in the atmosphere. I'm a natural empath okay, I pick up things in the atmosphere. I'm a feeler, and if I see someone in need, I will always, my first instinct is to go and help, despite what, what you know is happening around. And seeing her in the pool, everyone jumped out of the pool and I was like, oh no, I'm not going to do that, I'm going to wade through it's literally wading through vomit to her and it was like, no, I don't want you; so for me, that was my first episode of rejection, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would have been like eew ! that's what everyone did.

Speaker 3:

That would have been the normal thing, I would have run in the other direction, certainly not going towards that person, but so that obviously shows the kind of person that you are, like you said, an empath.

Speaker 2:

So, um, how do you identify low self-esteem in somebody? How do you know that someone has low self-esteem? What are the pointers that somebody's going through low self-esteem?

Speaker 3:

I mean it manifests in different ways. I can only speak for myself. I think, um, when something negative happens, automatically you start to think actually is it my fault? So maybe you've had a disagreement, you've expressed how you feel. Maybe the person stops talking to you automatically. You're thinking oh my God, what have I done? It must be because I'm a horrible person. So you start to internalize things that have absolutely nothing to do with you, with you. Then also, you just lack the confidence to make independent decisions. So I really struggled with that. Initially I thought that it was because I was the last born, but I realized that I had the ultimate combo of a low self-esteem, which is someone who's gone through trauma, someone who is an empath you always want people to be okay, so you put yourself last and also being the last child where your voice is often taken. So I had everything that was ideal for a mix of somebody who you know would suffer from low self-esteem. Yeah, so those are the some of the things okay.

Speaker 2:

So what I'm getting from that is erm, is it, can I then infer from what you've said that someone who's an empath may have tendencies of having lost self-esteem?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean even till now. You know, in my book I wrote self-esteem is a journey. I'm still on that journey. If I see you in trouble, automatically I am going to just rein in and go for it to say how can I help? I'm now learning to actually take a step back. Is that what she really needs? Do you have the capacity? So it's not that I'm no longer an empath, it's just that with therapy, which I'll come to I've now learned the tools to how to navigate. You know situations where I want to be everything to everyone, and what you've just said is so important when you talk about relationships, yeah, I think this to how to navigate.

Speaker 2:

You know situations where I want to be everything to everyone, to everyone, and what you've just said is so important when you talk about relationships. I think this is what we find in a lot of relationships, where people are then treated badly because they're trying to be the empath, they're trying to be the mother, they're trying to help, they're trying to do all these things, whereas the person they're trying to help may not necessarily need that help. Yes, you know. And then they give everything yes, and they're treated yes.

Speaker 3:

And it's a cycle because then you then feel rejected and you go further into that spiral. Actually it's because I'm not good enough. So it becomes a real circle and throughout my journey I've had episodes of major rejections that really drew a line for me in the sand to say, actually you are not good enough Just because I was giving my all. But people use that to their own advantage and I left those relationships feeling like you're not worth anything.

Speaker 2:

Are you willing to share any of those examples?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, I think two, two sticks to mind. Yes, um, when I was in secondary school, you know, you have this high school sweet heart, you know, maybe hopefully my mom is not listening I didn't, I didn't have any more.

Speaker 2:

Well, my mom can't hear anymore, but my dad, daddy, I didn't have any yeah.

Speaker 3:

so you have this high school sweet heart and people always used to tease me. I was always so embarrassed and I actually wanted to end it. I didn't want to be in it anymore but because I was just, I didn't want to offend, I just stayed in that relationship and it ended up ruining most of my secondary school experience because I was just not able to focus on what I was meant to focus on. It was all about this relationship, but I didn't want it to carry on, but I just didn't want to offend.

Speaker 3:

Being afraid and then, unfortunately, as life would happen, the relationship ended in a quite tragic way and there were things that happened that I did, and all of that and he did, and what he said to me I will never forget. He said you were like a white piece of cloth and now you're stained, so I can't be with you anymore. What did that mean?

Speaker 3:

That meant that I was no longer this perfect person that he thought and that was the beginning of actually a period of depression for me, because that happened around 16, 17, when I was really trying to step into my own as a young lady, and that was one of the main blows I remember on my self-esteem journey and it affected me for many years- you said there were two. Yes, and then the second instance was when I went to university I had a friend and I think that's the thing people don't realize about self-esteem is low self-esteem is you attract people who would manipulate you it's like you're a magnet, because out of you trying to please and you not setting boundaries, people will then make their own rules concerning you.

Speaker 3:

And I had this friend who wanted me to be everything that I could not be. She wanted me to be perfect, she wanted me to be her best friend, she wanted me to do all the things, and I was just on my journey, trying to find myself, and it ended up being quite a toxic relationship where every time she would call me and say to me I'm not happy with you, I don't like how you spoke, I don't like how you did this. So every time she was reprimanding me and every time I was apologizing and I left that relationship completely broken. Yes, it took me again, that was another relationship that it took me years to get over, and even now, you know, it's still quite a sore spot for me because I lost myself completely in that relationship and I remember when it finally ended, I said I'm so sorry that I couldn't be all you wanted me to be.

Speaker 2:

You were still apologizing, I was still apologizing.

Speaker 3:

even at the end I still felt that there was more I could do, but it was more a case of I just couldn't do it. But if I could, I would.

Speaker 2:

So you didn't see that this was some form of abuse.

Speaker 3:

No, I didn't, until I went to therapy and reflection. But at that moment I just felt this is such an amazing person, everybody loves her. It must be me, it has to be me, because everyone wants to be her friend. So if I can't do everything I need to do to be her friend, then the problem is me. So that's the thing about low self-esteem as well. You put the spotlight on you, so, in an effort to actually please other people, you end up being quite self-absorbed because it's now also about me, me, me. You're not able to actually have a wider view of things. It's kind of it's all down to you okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So why do you think that we're all so obsessed with people liking us? Or being loved by like that you wanted that person to really like yeah so why are we? Why?

Speaker 3:

okay for me. I think it's because I I didn't understand what um self-love was. Um, losing my dad early was a major issue, because the importance of a father in a girl's life cannot be, you know, you can't understate it. There's something about a father that affirming a child, a girl child, does to her self-esteem that there's no boy, there's nobody that will come and say anything. You'll be like my daddy loves me.

Speaker 3:

And that affected me even in terms of my relationship with God, because I didn't really understand what the father's love was. But the the most heartbreaking thing is I didn't understand what love for myself meant. So that's why I always wanted people to tell me or show me what love meant, and nobody can do that. Nobody can tell you how to love yourself. So for me it was more a cry of help that please come and love me, come and tell me that I'm good. And when they tell me I'm not, it's like I've gone 10 steps back and then I'm trying to catch up again to the position I was at before.

Speaker 2:

Wow, wow, yeah, self-love. So what exactly does self-love look like.

Speaker 3:

So I always say self-love is not about putting yourself above someone else or feeling that you're better than them. Self-love is just honoring yourself for who you are, who God has made you, honoring your journey, embracing your flaws and imperfections, but always giving grace to yourself, because we give grace to others so easily.

Speaker 2:

But we don't give to ourselves.

Speaker 3:

But it's so hard to give grace. So it's also about how what you extend to others, extend to yourself first, because you can't love others truly and deeply if you don't love yourself because you're. You are giving them what you know love to be so people say so, love yourself exactly so.

Speaker 3:

I mean, self-love to me is healthy. I know that some people make it look like you know it's all about you and you know it's not. You're being self-absorbed. But self-love is healthy. Self-love is where everything else radiates from. It's where you now are able to give love to those around you and it's where it's like your own well that you are generating and then it's pouring out to others. But if that well is empty, you can't give to anyone to anyone.

Speaker 2:

So if I say I love myself, self-love, I don't care what anybody says, I don't care, is that self-love?

Speaker 3:

that's not self-love.

Speaker 3:

No, no, that is absolutely not self-love I mean that could be, that could be, you know, even selfish. But self-love is also considerate for of others, because when you are gracious to yourself, it's easy for you to be gracious to others because you see that you are loving yourself despite your imperfections. Therefore, you can extend that. But oftentimes you see people who are very much like I don't care about those other people. They oftentimes don't love themselves because they can't be vulnerable with themselves to say actually I'm also a flawed person. So they cover that up and therefore when they see vulnerability in others, that's a trigger for them. Like you know, I don't want to have any part to do, but when you have true self-love, actually you are very gracious to others.

Speaker 2:

So, in practical terms, how do? How would I show self-love to myself, apart from having empathy?

Speaker 3:

for myself and showing grace to myself.

Speaker 2:

Are there any practical things?

Speaker 3:

I could do to show myself absolutely. So obviously in my journey. I went through a journey, as I said, and you know, you know, I, I, I ended up getting married and you know, thinking that that would also fill that void, and then you quickly find out when you get married that actually it doesn't. It magnifies any void that you actually had. So what happened and I'll get to your question is in 2023, something happened in my life which was quite personal and quite painful and that led me to actually the breaking point where I realized, actually, you need to fix this. This is now becoming an issue and that's what led me to therapy. Okay, so one of the ways that you know you can work on self-esteem or develop self-love is going to therapy, because what that's not going to do is tell you the answer to your problems or just tell you you're fantastic, you're great, but it's going to help you trace back yeah where did all, where did this all start from?

Speaker 3:

and then from that you can start to to chart your own journey of healing. But also within that, you know I also have in my book affirmations. You know I, I recite affirmations. I have them, you know, in my in my bedroom. And affirmations that are particular to me, like I am loved, I am enough. You know, I have them, you know, in my, in my bedroom. And affirmations that are particular to me, like I am loved, I am enough. You know I have the ability to make independent decisions, so affirmations are key and um, what else would I say?

Speaker 3:

I think journaling as well, okay, which is why I put a slight journal element in my book just being able to write your feelings, because then you can go back and self reflect and self-correct, so you are no longer relying on other people to correct you or to affirm you. You can self-correct and say, actually, because when you self-correct, you do it in a compassionate way, because you know yourself. So you'll be like, yeah, actually I shouldn't have done this, okay, I'll do things better. You close the book and you move, so you are able to now manage your own emotions as opposed to giving it to other people who are leaving you open for them to manipulate it. But when you, I'm just thinking some other person could write those things and say I shouldn't have done this oh, I'm a stupid person.

Speaker 2:

Oh, I'm a whatever person, maybe this, this, this. So how do you help people to go past beyond that, beyond what's the word, beyond crucifying themselves?

Speaker 1:

for whatever it is they may have done and rather say okay, yes, I've done this.

Speaker 2:

it's a learning curve, it's time to move on, I can do. How do you get people to get to that stage?

Speaker 3:

Well, so, and it's a very good question. You know, when I? My preference with my books is when they're given out. They're done in spaces where people can have discussions, because, exactly what you said, some people would just write down all the horrible things they've done and not be able to see the good in themselves. So for me, they've done and not be able to see the good in themselves. So for me, that's part of the work that my charity does.

Speaker 3:

You know, when we have sessions or when we give out the book, we have sessions so we can have those discussions and we can actually address what are the core things that, um, the the limit, self-limiting thoughts that are being told to us. So, yes, you know, for me it was just I was not good enough, but for another girl it might just be, I'm not smart enough, so then we try to address that. So we would then go to the root. Okay, where did that come from? So obviously, if you don't have the privilege of being in a session, it would just be to go back to the root of if you are feeling like you've done something wrong that day. Oh, I really messed up today. I was so rude to this person. I'm a horrible person. You need to go, but why do you feel horrible for that? Where does that come? There needs to be some real work in terms of tracing back the origin of those negative thoughts yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So all of that kind of work will be found in like therapy yes in the kind of session therapy or or conversations with a trusted adult.

Speaker 3:

If it's a child with a trusted adult, if it's a child with a trusted adult, but if it's an adult, obviously counseling, therapy, or a mentor or friend, somebody who can also mirror back to you who you are, because somebody who knows you would also be able to tell you actually, this is who you are.

Speaker 2:

So my next question why is your book a short guide on developing self-esteem for girls? Why not just make it a generic book? Yes on self-esteem, why girls?

Speaker 3:

Why girls? Yeah, I've got that. I've got that quite a lot. A lot of my friends have boys and they've said this is not fair.

Speaker 3:

Why, what of my son and everything. But I've said that the principles apply. I think why I addressed it to girls is because the work I'm doing through the charity is for girls, so and this book is one of the resources we use. Okay, and obviously I can only speak of my journey. I'm acutely aware that boys have a very different journey and the challenges they're dealing with in terms of self-esteem are different and some of it I cannot speak to confidently. But I can talk about the general principles you know, based on my experience. But I wanted to be very careful that I wasn't speaking in spaces where I hadn't experienced okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

So would you do you think in the future you might, you might look at doing something for boys yeah, because I find that we talk a lot about girls' problems and issues, but we don't. Sometimes we just put the guys aside the boys aside because it's like well, it's a boy.

Speaker 3:

Get on with it.

Speaker 2:

That attitude that boys can get on with anything they can do anything, whereas a lot of young men are suffering too.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely and by no means me targeting girls was. The intention was not to say that boys don't need it. I think they even need it more and you know a lot of people have said do something for boys. I think maybe I might then need to partner with a male to give me some insights or talk more to my son about it, but I have made sure that you know the friends I have. I would say that forget about the book cover, just get it for your male child, because the concepts are the same. But I would definitely consider doing something for boys, maybe later in the future, as the Lord leads, and also for older girls, older girls, yeah, even for adults in relationships as well, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I had a question that I wanted to ask you and I've written it down somewhere, so just bear with me. Yes, so why is peer pressure such a problem with young people? Because I think this also has something to do with self-esteem. Why do you think it's such a problem?

Speaker 3:

It's back to that whole fear of rejection. And peer pressure is not just young people, even adults, you know, we face peer pressure, um guised in different ways, right, but for young people it's more um overt you do this now or you're not. They will say, oh, you're not part of us. But adults it's kind of hidden and subtle. But it's back to that root of um rejection. It's it's feeling that, okay, if I stand up for myself and I say no, would they still love me, would they still want me? It all goes back to that question. What is at stake here? My acceptance is at stake. I don't. I'm not confident enough to stand on my own. I don't want to be an island. No, I will do what they want, even if I don't want to.

Speaker 2:

So that's yeah, that's it. Even in the workplace you find that peer pressure. You would think that it would only be associated with young people, but even in the workplace, there's peer pressure, absolutely so much of it that some people will be like okay, I have to go to them with the pub, because if I don't go to the pub.

Speaker 2:

I probably will not get the next promotion and stuff like that, whereas you don't really want to go there, yes, yes you don't. You don't want to do some of these things, but you just feel like yeah but why do adults also have to be in the same shoes? You would think that as adults, we can deal with these things yeah, I think obviously it's because adults are suffering from low self-esteem.

Speaker 3:

Um, yeah, a lot, lots of adults are suffering from low self-esteem. Lots of adults have been on my journey or similar journeys to mine and have not been able to do the work for whatever reason, and I just they're just surviving as best as they can. They've learned coping mechanisms that may not be healthy, you know, in terms of how to navigate the way they feel, you know, maybe even going into unhealthy habits, but it's because they haven't dealt with these challenges as a child, which is why the age I've picked is pivotal. From ages 10 onwards is what my charity focuses on, because that is when children really start to identify as a person, as separate from mommy or daddy. They are now going into spaces where they have to start to make little decisions by themselves in secondary school. So I'm trying to nip it at that point whereby you know they can now start growing with this concept, as opposed to me learning this, you know, years down the line, you know, after I've been through so much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, um, social media, yeah, I think, I may be wrong, but I think that social media has also helped to increase low self-esteem in a lot of people. What's your take on that?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I think there was something I read that there was evidence that the more time a girl this was about girls spent on social media, it was an inverse proportion to her self-esteem. So if you're looking at it like a graph, the more time on social media, the more likely this child will have low self-esteem. And yeah, I think that the girls I speak to now you know, in terms of low self-esteem, where they're getting it from is from social media more than before. Before you know, for me it was more about the people around me and environmental factors, but now you know, know girls can just be on their phone and start to feel bad about themselves just by what they're looking at. So I didn't have that issue.

Speaker 3:

So for me, it's an area that I'm trying to read up more and learn more about, how I can support girls in that sphere, because they can't really avoid it. Now it's in their face. So I'm trying to really understand and find healthy ways of managing it and for now, I've just told them look, limit your screen time. Yeah, you want to be on tiktok, snapchat, instagram, whatever, but you don't have to be on it for hours on end and learn to unfollow people or things that trigger you be very um, intentional about what you're following. Don't just follow anything and everything. Follow things that are edifying, things that encourage you. So it's about helping them navigate it, as opposed to just taking it away from them because they can't avoid it.

Speaker 2:

But then social media also for adults too.

Speaker 2:

Leads to low self-esteem in quite a number of people because they're seeing all those flashy things that may not necessarily be real. Yes, because in fact, recently I saw a documentary about this guy who has been on social media talking about all the money and the flashy cars and everything, whereas it was all just a screen that he was using and he would rent. Sometimes he would rent a ship, a ship, yeah, a boat. Sorry, not a ship, a boat. Sorry, not a ship a boat, a boat. And he take pictures on it and flash all of that and somebody else is watching and thinking, oh my God, what is wrong with?

Speaker 2:

me how come I can't make all of this stuff I'm working hard, just like this person. I'm doing exactly what this person is doing. What's happening?

Speaker 3:

yes, yes, it's the same. Yeah, as you said, in adults, um, you know, in some of the sessions I have with girls, I show them a social media clip and the clip is trying to show them that what is being shown is not all, everything is not as it seems. So that fake life concept, and they seem to grasp it more. I'm really surprised. Us adults are a bit slower to grasp that, and maybe it's because just social media for us is also an outlet where we just used to go into a different space and a different world to get away from um, everyday life, and maybe therefore it makes things a bit more um, makes us a bit more gullible, is an escape route as, yes, so, but you're right, I mean we as adults need to be very, very, very conscious of what we're taking in and also unfollow, you know, try to.

Speaker 2:

It's hard to unfollow sometimes because you just think.

Speaker 3:

I'll miss out. Yeah, exactly. But, it's about being intentional, like I'm on a social media break now, so I haven't been on Instagram for a while, so I try to then introduce that. You know, when I feel like, okay, okay, this is enough time you've had on social media, so I take intermittent break. So that's another way of managing. If you can't escape it, just have like a social media fast, that's my daughter.

Speaker 2:

My daughter does that very often. Sometimes she just go completely quiet.

Speaker 3:

Yeah no instagram, yeah, she doesn't necessarily, but no, instagram, nothing yeah completely often I'm how do you do this?

Speaker 2:

But she does this regularly because she says, if she doesn't do that she would really struggle, so she does that quite often and I struggle, yeah, I struggle.

Speaker 3:

You need to take some lessons from her.

Speaker 2:

I struggle, but recently I was saying to myself I have lost the art of reading. I used to love reading books to read on the train. Now I'm finding myself just on my phone scrolling from one thing to the other, I also need to take a screen break. There's something I read somewhere and it says there's no way out of low self-esteem until you realise that it is a choice and you make a decision and you make a different choice. Do you agree with this?

Speaker 2:

say that again, there's no way out of low self-esteem until you realize that low self-esteem is a choice and you make a decision to make a different choice well do you?

Speaker 3:

think that's an extreme. I think it's an extreme. I think that sometimes it's beyond the choice for some people. Some people genuinely have even chemical imbalances that may be causing that. You know, suffering from depression and all of that. So need help. So, and I would say, low self-esteem comes in. There's a spectrum. So maybe people there probably is a cohort of people who actually just need to make a decision and you just need to tell yourself that you are enough and that's it, and. But I think some other people need therapy, they need help, they need mentoring, they need coaching, they might even need medication. So I wouldn't simplify it as just a thought, a choice and a thought process, depending on where you find yourself on that spectrum.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay, yeah, okay. So um, one other question I wrote, stay with me while I find it so. When people say I don't like myself, how do you help somebody who says I don't like myself? How would you help somebody like that?

Speaker 3:

Okay, basically, first of all, I wouldn't even flinch or make it seem like you don't like how can you not have to? I just normalize, okay, why. It's just literally, my facial expression wouldn't even change to make them feel like they haven't said anything. That's to make them comfortable. So it's, it's about why, why, why don't you like yourself? And you know they might just say, um, I don't know. You know, I always make mistakes or something superficial. But the point of the conversation would then be actually just to drill down to the root issue, and the root issue tends to stem from, maybe, something that has happened a significant event that has happened, that has framed the way they see each other, or an environmental factor, you know?

Speaker 3:

maybe a divorce, trauma, loss, something has happened. That is the root and then that is just really a manifestation. Really, that is actually not the main issue.

Speaker 2:

The main thing. That's just a manifestation.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so you talked about therapy.

Speaker 2:

earlier you said therapy is is good, but a lot of people don't like to. Yeah, consider therapy. Why do you think people shy away from therapy?

Speaker 3:

I think it's just the stigma. I think that people are not comfortable with having emotional problems. They feel comfortable with physical problems. You go to the doctor, but emotional problems signifies you're, you're losing your mind or something. It makes them feel like you know. It's that stigma of are you going crazy? And as much as we take care of our physical health, why can't we take care of our mental health and our emotions? And actually they're as important? Because there's so much research that your emotions have a high effect, you know, on your physical health. You know in terms of illnesses, you know your mental health affects, you know longevity of life and all of that. So actually it's actually more important in my opinion. But I think it's just a stigma and maybe it's that african, you know. Also, you know perspective.

Speaker 2:

It's not something we talk about, but I think things are changing now um, do you think that young people, young girls, are comfortable enough to go to their (we're talking from the African perspective now comfortable) enough to go to their mothers to say I'm feeling, I feel like I have a problem with? My self-esteem, do you think?

Speaker 3:

No.

Speaker 2:

In fact not even just African mothers, girls generally, just moms generally.

Speaker 3:

I don't think so. I think it's worse for African mothers. It might be different for other races, where you know they're used to having open and honest conversations about emotions, but certainly in African tradition, um no, which is why a lot of girls, black girls are going through low self-esteem, you know, and I would argue, you know they are really struggling because they're not even able to talk about it, whereas maybe some other races, you know the systems are in place for them to express it. But as an African girl, you know you'll be told what, don't? You see how beautiful you are, you are, you are in a good square. You're not grateful, what, what does this look? And that's it, and that's it.

Speaker 3:

So what I do try to do is girls that come for my club, because sometimes in my home I host some young girls we call them, we have like something called the young butterfly club but also always make sure I link up with the parents, um, some things they share to me. I wouldn't share everything to the parents, you know, but I would always try to involve them in the ongoing conversations and say you know what? Can you pick this up with her? Can you talk to her about this? She's flagged this. She said this is how she's feeling. So I always try to rope them back in because they're the most significant person.

Speaker 3:

But I think that is definitely a missing piece. But I mean, that's something I'm committed to do. You know, any girl I'm working with, I'm making sure I'm also talking to the mothers, the parents about. You know this is also something you need to actively be involved in, and these are how you can create healthy systems or environments whereby your daughter can come and tell you where a boy has told her she's ugly and she's crying and she actually believes him.

Speaker 2:

Even when a boy or a girl tells him you're not good, he can't cry because of the feel so bad about himself for a long time. So what kind of things do you tell parents to look out for in order for them to spot? This issue. Low self-esteem in their children. What can they be looking out for?

Speaker 3:

I think if your child was naturally confident. You know, usually in primary school they're kind of all over the place, but as they approach secondary school they start to withdraw. You know, they're more conscious of how they look, more conscious of what people say about their parents. So I think that is a pivotal time to keep a close eye as they navigate into senior school. Um, the one for the whole of secondary school is one period in life where I would say parents should have a keen attention in terms of and have those open angles. So how are you, how you feeling? How are your friend? Are you okay? I hope no one. And sometimes make it as a joke if they feel like, don't start asking. You know you can even turn into a joke, but start to have those gentle conversations digging into how they're really feeling about themselves. But apart from that, so your question was remind me the question.

Speaker 2:

The pointers that parents could have. Pointers yeah.

Speaker 3:

If there's trauma that has gone on in the family, so a divorce you know, some of the kids I'm working with you know their parents are getting a divorce or they've lost a significant you know family member or they've lost a parent.

Speaker 3:

I think that is a major red flag that you need to keep an eye, because that's what happened with me, whereby um, that was I, I.

Speaker 3:

It was more like the trauma was the focus as opposed to the impact it was having on the children. So I would make sure that any child that is going through either divorce or loss of a significant member in their family goes through some form of counselling, whether that's offered through their school or in the church or environment. So those are kind of two main things I would say. But I would also say, if you notice that the child is becoming increasingly interested in the opposite sex, you know whether they're old enough to start having relationships, or they start talking about boys or, as the case may be, I think that's a time where you want to start having conversations with them, because that means that that person will start having a significant impact on how your child feels about themselves, like I had in that relationship where the boy told me I was white and I'm no longer white you're now stained.

Speaker 2:

Oh my god, how old was he to have said such a?

Speaker 3:

thing, probably 18 or so oh my. God, how annoying. For many years I was having nightmares about being a stained person. And you're thinking really so at that point, exactly At that stage where they start being interested in the opposite sex, the opposite sex starts to have a real strong influence on them. So I would really start to really have those, intensify those conversations and make sure that they're feeling good about themselves okay.

Speaker 2:

Have you ever considered taking your program, this thing you're doing into schools to talk to them in schools? Because I'm just thinking back now I did something like this many years ago where I went to schools in secondary actually it was his primary school and I targeted children in year six and talked to them about self-esteem going to secondary school I just talked about going into secondary school. I just mentioned it, but I'm thinking it's just come back to me now.

Speaker 2:

I never I didn't even plan yeah it's just come back to me now to just ask't even plan that. It's just come back to me now to just ask if you're considering that or if you're doing that already, because I think it would be a good thing to just go to the schools, talk to them and have a lesson, even if it's just a one day lesson, one off lesson, because this is where we need to target.

Speaker 3:

What do you think? I think that that is a divine inspiration, because even before I came in here, I was thinking I really need to start going into schools and be serious about this, but and I hadn't shared that with you, so for me that's confirmation that I need to do something. But that that was literally what I was thinking as I was waiting to come in here that so when are you going to start taking this to schools and doing something about it? And I thought, oh, maybe I should start with my child's primary school.

Speaker 3:

so because I did that in my yeah exactly because they would be welcome and they know you and there's a trust established.

Speaker 2:

And that's exactly how it was. I just went up to the head teacher and I said I have this idea to do this thing. Blah, blah, blah. And he said, yeah, why? not Go ahead and it was really fun. It was a fun thing. So, like you said, this is just God.

Speaker 3:

Yes, this is God. Yes, that is. Please run with it, because that is a divine yes, yes, Inspiration.

Speaker 2:

So we're fast coming to the end of the podcast, but could you just tell us a little bit more about the foundation, how it works and everything?

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, it would be my pleasure. So this foundation is really the physical manifestation of my journey, because self-esteem is not a tangible thing, unfortunately. So it's difficult even for me, you know, to explain to people my journey. They just can see, they can sense it. But this foundation, this book, is actually something tangible. I can say look, this is what I've been through, this is what God has helped me to get through, and this is how I want to help other girls so they don't go through the mistakes that I've made, you know. So I started it last year in October. It's been a year now and it's been an amazing year. I do work in the UK, as I said, with my young butterfly club. Then I have a lot of work that I do in Nigeria. I have staff there and they go out to schools.

Speaker 3:

We tend to um target low income schools okay the reason is because those girls are not hearing these. I feel like middle class schools there might be these messages woven in here, there, everywhere. Maybe not so much, but the mid, the low income schools. Nobody's telling you. You're loved, you are just thinking am I going to be in school the next day because I don't have school fees? Yes, so we target that and we go. I do fundraising in the UK in terms of selling the book in the uk and then so that I can give out the books for free in Nigeria, so all those girls get the books for free. So to date we've given out over 700 books to schools. We've gone to about nine schools, you know, to give out seminars and talks.

Speaker 2:

This is in Nigeria In.

Speaker 3:

Nigeria and I've done some talks here in my local church as well for the youth. And then we identify girls who are smart, brilliant, because education is also very pivotal for self-esteem. I mean, it's the foundation. So we also don't want to just deal with the airy-fairy, we want to deal with the practical things that matter too, which is having an education. So we identify some girls that are really smart, bright, upcoming, and then we pay for their fees. You know, throughout the secondary school so we have a few girls called our butterfly girls that we pay for their fees.

Speaker 3:

Um, who have lost a parent. That's one of the criteria, just as I did um and um. Our former is from a low-income family and we're also doing that similarly in Ghana. I've gotten a partner in Ghana, so we're also replicating that in Ghana and paying for fees for university girls in Ghana from rural areas who have really good GPAs. So gradually we're doing the work is bit by bit. It's just me, but I'm convinced that because it's something I'm so passionate about, it is my life's journey. It's come with ease. There have been challenges, but I will say that it's a. It's a project. Can I call a project ministry? I don't know what's called, but it's something that is coming with so much ease because it's like it's about me, so yeah you said something about identifying girls with high gp and stuff like that, but but as you were saying that, something just occurred to me.

Speaker 2:

What about the ones who are not achieving, like that?

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Is there any program for them? Because if you don't do anything for them, that low self-esteem is it not going to be intensified?

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

We have not been chosen because we're not brilliant, I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 3:

I think so the reason we focus on the girls with high gpa is because of funding. Obviously we can't pay for school fees for every but the message, the seminars, the books, the activities and any intervention is given to all the girls. So it's now just between us and the schools. The other girls would not know that one of them is being funded. It's not like a public show-off thing, because obviously it's a sensitive thing as well that you can't afford the fees. So this is just a conversation between us and the school and say can you suggest a girl who their family is struggling? And then, but I hear you in terms of actually we don't publicize it. That's the part of the foundation work. We don't, because we don't want them to feel less of and any talk that we're giving is um targeted at all the girls. You know, and that's one of the main things we tell them.

Speaker 3:

We even go to orphanages and we say because you don't even know who your parents are, it does not make you any better than me, sorry, it does not make me any better than you. You know, we are all equals in, equal in this in the sight of God, and anything that I can achieve. You can absolutely achieve, and I'm so passionate about that message. I am so passionate and, I think, because I'm an empath as I said, my heart has always been for the least of these. So this is like a calling, it's a passion, it's a ministry, it's everything all tied in one that I think God has allowed to all crystallize into something so meaningful what you just said just reminded me of the wordings of a song, my daughter wrote.

Speaker 2:

It says shine your light for all the world to see you are beautiful. Yeah, you're beautiful, and I think that's that. Everything you're trying to do is to make these girls realize, no matter who they are, whatever their circumstances are, they're still beautiful on the inside and on the outside.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much. I always like to end this podcast on a note of hope. So what would you like to say to somebody out there who's struggling with their self-esteem? Anything just to encourage people out there, somebody who's listening probably an adult or a child or whoever's listening what would you like to say to them? I think,

Speaker 3:

The mission of my charity is that, for every girl that we come in contact with, to know that they are loved and they are enough. Yes, and I want you to know, if you're listening, that you are loved and you are enough. You have nothing to prove to anyone. You don't have to prove your worth. Your worth is you are everything you need to be. Yeah, you are everything you need to be. What's an all. It doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes yeah, we all do. It doesn't mean that you're perfect.

Speaker 2:

It just means that, despite your flaws, you are enough despite your flaws, despite all our flaws, yes, we are enough. How can we support you? How can people out there support?

Speaker 3:

you your ministry. This is a ministry as far as I'm concerned. How do people support your ministry? Yeah, I mean a ministry as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2:

How do people support your ministry, yeah I mean, we're on instagram.

Speaker 3:

If you just search butterfly foundation for girls, it's on Instagram and we have a website also very easy, butterfly foundation for girls. org. And yeah, we, within those that contact us, you know um icons. If you want to reach out to me personally, or if you want me to have a chat with your daughter, I'll be more than happy to. Or if you want to get a copy of the book it's also on Amazon called Becoming Me a short guide on developing self-esteem for girls, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to put all the all that information in the podcast and the notes in the podcast so that if anybody wants to reach out to you, wants to support your ministry, when in any way possible, give to the ministry any way they can support or even just sign point you to places where you can then share your message and all of that they can do that and if any parent wants to speak to you about their child going through self-esteem or whatever they, they can also reach you.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

So I'll put all the details on there and then they can get in touch with you. Yeah, woo, thank you so much, Temi. This has been really, really fun and, like I said at the beginning, it was God ordained. And as we've come to the end of it, I'm more convinced that this was definitely good, so I'm glad that I listened to that nudge.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I'm glad you did too. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully we'll get you back here again sometime soon to speak on something else.

Speaker 3:

I would love to Thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you all for listening to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Hopefully, you'll join us again sometime soon. Please share this with everybody you know. Share it, please. We want more people sharing the podcast. Please help us share with your friends, your family and, if you like it, you can support us also, uh, in any way you want to support us, um, send us messages, let's have a conversation, and thank you so much for listening and hopefully, um, you'll be back again with us sometime soon. Until then, take care, God bless and lots of love. Thank you you.