Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Faith in the Real World: How Young Christians Navigate Identity, Relationships, and Modern Challenges

• Tele

Share episode

Send us a text

Young Christians navigate a complex world filled with diverse beliefs, societal expectations, and personal struggles. The conversation highlights the importance of identity, communication, and community, shedding light on the unique challenges faced by this generation while encouraging listeners to ground themselves in faith and open dialogue. 

• Personal stories of growing up Christian in diverse environments 
• University life as a pivotal moment for faith and identity 
• Impact of societal pressures and social media on self-image 
• Compromise as a recurring theme in maintaining one's faith 
• Importance of open discussions around sex and relationships in the church 
• Changing dynamics of modern dating among young Christians 
• Encouragement to seek community and connection in navigating challenges

Support the show

Speaker 2:

Hello, hello, and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today I've got a panel of young people with me and I'm super excited to have them in the house with me, so I'm just going to ask them to introduce themselves. I'm going to start with the lady in front of me.

Speaker 3:

Hi, so my name is Mariam, I'm 22. I'm a recent graduate from King's College London. I studied international relations and now I work in consultancy.

Speaker 2:

Excellent.

Speaker 4:

Hi, my name is Anjola. I'm also a recent graduate from King's College London, studied politics and yeah, I'm a graduate and I'm happy to be here. So thank you, Auntie Tela.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for coming, and to the gentleman on my right.

Speaker 5:

Hi, my name is Temi. Yeah, I feel like you guys have heard me before on this. So yeah, I'm not a graduate yet. I'm 21, hopefully graduating this year and I study next year right, and I study media production media production.

Speaker 2:

okay, so today's topic is growing up christian in a diverse world, and I wanted to have, um, the views of the young people, just to talk about how they navigate growing up in this world that we're in today. Uh, we have so many people with different um beliefs, different ideas about what the world is supposed to be like, and being a Christian can sometimes be hard. So I just wanted to hear your views on that, and we're going to talk about the kind of challenges that young people face day to day. So I wanted to start with you, mariam. What are the reasons that? I mean, what are the ways you manage growing up in this kind of world that we have today?

Speaker 3:

I mean, I would say as a child I didn't really manage because I was obviously. I grew up in a Christian household, so my parents both gone in Pentecostal Christian household. But I also went to a Catholic school, so I was in the Christian faith. But I think I did have a faith in God when I was young, when I was really young, so probably around eight, eight, nine, ten is when I think I probably accepted Christ into my heart. But of course you're really young, at that age you don't really know what that means, um, and so I go to school.

Speaker 3:

Now, even though I go to a Catholic school, most, most of the kids there don't really believe in God either, or they're just, it's more like they'll go to church on a Sunday, but that's really it, um, and so naturally we don't really like the people you're surrounded with growing up, the friends you make. If they're not people that are actively pursuing God, then it's very easy to just kind of get lost, kind of forget about your faith. So that was the case for me. Even though I had the Christian household, I wasn't really pursuing Jesus, so naturally meant I was living, um, I wouldn't say, a Christian life. Yeah, I was Christian in name.

Speaker 3:

I wasn't really living a Christian life or actively trying to grow my relationship with God until I would say, lockdown um, I don't really know what to call it. It was just like an epiphany I just had. I think we all had one. Yeah, yeah, I had like an epiphany, um, and I realized I actually did believe in god like five years prior. So what happened to that and I think that I think that was the holy spirit's way of just calling me back to him um, just being by myself.

Speaker 3:

Obviously, at home all schools were locked down at that point. So you just had a lot of spare time and I think I just started reading the bible for myself and that's when I started for like sort of understanding my faith a bit more, um, but still I didn't. I would say it wasn't until I got plugged into a church where I could actually be friends with people who were also trying to actively pursue Jesus, that I know what it meant to like really live a Christian life as a young adult. So, yeah, yeah, my story is a bit like up and down but yeah, just like all of us.

Speaker 3:

What about you Angela.

Speaker 2:

How have you managed to navigate this world that we're living in today?

Speaker 4:

I would say it's been quite.

Speaker 4:

It's funnily different because for as long as I can remember, every school that I've been in has been very Christ-centered okay so when I think about the first school that I was at properly and involved in properly as a child, there was a very much strong Christian culture. Yeah, teachers were Christian, the headmaster was Christian, he often did talks to us and you know those were a couple of just seeds that were being sown daily. So for me, the diversity of faith and belief and religion although that was there inevitably due to the fact that there is just simply a lot of people in London yeah, that wasn't really what I experienced, okay, especially coming from a Christian household. Now, the amount of time that I'm spending with in school is christian.

Speaker 4:

Then I say that even ramped up when I went to secondary school because we had a new chaplain that came in when I was year eight okay and I still speak to him now, still stay in touch, we still see each other, and he very much brought a strong christian culture to a christian culture that could have been dying. So when usually diversity, you know, increases naturally as different demographics come into schools, come into the workspace, it's very easy for christianity to kind of become diluted out and filtered out, but he very much ensured no for those who really want to take Jesus seriously, come to me. And yeah, just like we have this podcast here, we used to have, you know, a lot of talks every lunchtime and those are just seeds that were being sown. So, for as long as I can remember, I did not feel like I was an outcast in any way. I just really enjoyed studying the Word, studying the bible whilst whilst going to school. Yeah, so I'll say that's my journey.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so your, your journey is totally different from a lot of people because I would say that's, that's a very unusual journey. Yeah, very unusual, maybe I needed it, I think we all needed something like that, but well, uh, everybody's story is different, so tell me, what about you?

Speaker 5:

um I don't know. I'd say my story had like quite a lot of, I guess, ups and downs, because I mean, I mean primary school, yeah, we went to, went to a catholic school. It was very like. It just kind of I don't know. I never really connected to that school in the christian sense, just because I'm not sure if it was more the style of christianity. It was because obviously we were pentecostals but like they're not just catholic, roman catholic as well, so even though, yes, it's the same thing, the way they celebrate was very different. So it was quite like. And also in that place as well I know where we live is it's a lot different now, but back then, diversity wise, yeah, I was like you know one of the only few like black kids in my school so it was also quite hard to like have that kind of connection and be also close to all of them.

Speaker 5:

So I think whilst I was growing up and then going to church really helped it. It was always kind of like fading back and forth. And then I think I sort of had the opposite to Angela when I went to secondary school because I think just kind of growing into it it was so weird because the school was, you know, they said that oh, they're gonna like grow into like really christian's belief but realistically like you get to that age people are growing into their bodies, like growing into things that they believe, like everything kind of just spaces out.

Speaker 5:

And then, because my group of friends wasn't like they were, quite they weren't very christian at all so it all kind of faded to me for a very long time so I don't know it was quite.

Speaker 5:

I never found it too difficult as a christian, but it was very. I wouldn't say my upbringing would have been as strong as I would have liked it to be and I think I only kind of had a realization of what I wanted as um with my relationship with God in like year 10 or so okay, so everybody's um journey has been different.

Speaker 2:

So when you went to uni, anybody would like to talk about this, talk about this. When you went to uni, what was? Was there any difference? Let me even ask you if you have this, perfect everything perfect for primary school. What was the difference in uni, or if there was any difference.

Speaker 4:

I'll say that's probably where it went. Yeah, the complete opposite okay finally.

Speaker 4:

So my first year, um had my first taste of freedom and I would say, whilst I wasn't really going to the extreme that that some people usually do, I I definitely did understand that there was a life outside of Jesus and that was the life that I was living. And so a lot of the time, for example, like Temi said, we're growing into our bodies. All that kind of stuff. It easily kind of spaces out your focus. It removes that focus from what it previously was.

Speaker 4:

And so I'd say most definitely my first year of university was probably the hardest as a Christian but funnily, with that being said, I did always make it my mission to find a church. So I found this church called HTB in the first year and I attended Bible studies with one of my best friends and we just attended together and I think it kind of fell off a bit. But then still, I still had that hunger for finding a church because I've been used to that my whole life because of that strong impact it's had on me. So yeah, I'll say first year was it wasn't really too great, but I still kind of tried to seek out church and fellowship when possible. But yeah, definitely very different to what I was used to.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Mariam, I say uni is where it all went wrong, but at the same time right yeah, and I say that because the Lord, just he's able to redeem every story, which is what he did for me. So the year before uni that was sort of we were coming out of lockdown. So that's where I sort of first rekindled a faith or a fire for God, should I say. But I wasn't really plugged into a church. So when I got to uni now, even though there was that hunger there, when you're not surrounded by other, like Christians, it's quite hard to maintain it and the church that I had sort of found it was like I was, it was at the time was in North London, and then I moved to South for uni, for where my accommodation was, so it was just impossible to get there like a 10 am service. So naturally I was not really going to church.

Speaker 3:

And then the friends that I made in my first year weren't Christian, everyone's living that first year, freshest lifestyle, going out all the time.

Speaker 3:

So, yeah, my, my, even though I had a faith in God, even though I did like I knew I loved Jesus, but I didn't, I wasn't living, I wasn't really reading, I wasn't really reading bible. I wasn't really. I wasn't going to church, um, and that was a very I think I realized the effects of that sort of not being under under God, like not being under God's sort of protection or under his wings, like when you're truly actively pursuing that relationship with him. And so there's a lot of things that did occur in my first year that I was like if I had just like sort of put my head down, these things probably wouldn't have happened. But I say that's where it all went right, because then God showed me an aspect of himself which is the father that relentlessly pursues his children, no matter how far they run. And I wouldn't have understood him or understood his character to that extent if I hadn't sort of gone my own way.

Speaker 2:

Um, and so I say, from second year, that's when I started going to, that's when I found my church I'm at now, and the Lord sort of turned my story completely around so, yeah, yeah, I think everyone seems to have a period in their lives where they, they, they, they kind of like walk away from God in a way, and then he kind of leads them right back 100%. So has anybody ever had a situation where they've doubted their fate at any point in time?

Speaker 5:

Yeah, definitely. I mean it's kind of related to what everyone's talking about, like first year uni. I mean, yeah, it happens. Everyone you surround yourself with people that like it was really tough because I had, about, I think, one christian friend in first year who happened to be my girlfriend at the time, who then, um, in the nicest way possible, the breakup was ridiculously messy and then learning things that she did and then things she ended up saying about me, it kind of made me like regress to the point where, like, I don't even want to think about it, because it was a point where thinking about that and then thinking about God it kind of hurt.

Speaker 2:

It felt, was that because she was Christian?

Speaker 5:

Well, yeah, because I had, like it was the first, you know, it was the first Christian girlfriend I had, like I know I wasn't really meant to be in like relationships and stuff. It happens Sorry, mom, no need to say that, yeah, but I don't know. I think it was just something about that. And then the way things ended, the way I heard what she was saying about me behind closed doors, it was so, it was such a strong betrayal. So then when I got to second year and the second year was completely different for me because I had not owned, I changed unis and then I'd living in the studio now.

Speaker 5:

So it felt like this time I was completely on my own and it it was quite like kind of suffocating at times. But I think there were points where I'm sat in my room by myself and I just one day I was just going through my Spotify playlist and I don't sort my things out. So it's just a mix and match of things. And one day I think it was I, it was imagine me by kirk franklin that just randomly played, and I think that was just um, that song means so much to me because it's like, especially like, just imagine me. Like letting go of all of it and I just I kept thinking about that. I replayed it over and over that day when I could finally like be in myself, and it sort of reminded me that you know this, this kind of lifestyle is Christian lifestyle you it's.

Speaker 5:

It's a choice that you make to go on like it's. It is a conscious choice to have a relationship with God. I just need to start doing that, and I think it was then, from second year. I started reading my Bible. I started looking into the church more. I'm happy that like, for example, you go imprint in London.

Speaker 4:

There's one in Leicester as well.

Speaker 5:

Okay. So I ended up going. I think it was the first one actually. I don't remember, but yeah, I ended up going to that and I enjoy that now.

Speaker 2:

I enjoy that a lot now, so I think they definitely help me okay, what about you, mariam, in terms of, in terms of did you lose your faith, apart from what you've told us earlier? Did you doubt the faith at any point? Um?

Speaker 3:

I think there's been like moments here and there I don't know if I've like completely doubt like the existence of god. I think I feel like, because you like, when you see a lot, especially in the church, and like the move of the spirit, something's just like I can't doubt that God exists, but I think it's sometimes doubting his goodness and his love. For me, um, I think when I was first coming into the faith again when I was younger, I remember just having a lot of questions about the bible. You question a lot like, oh, like, why was it written like this? And I think when, especially because of the education we tend to get in the west, it obviously the different theories of how we came to being and and just different stories of of humanity. Sometimes they do seem quite different from what the bible says.

Speaker 3:

So I think that's where I first maybe started doubting a little bit the faith in general. But then I also think it was maybe like sort of similar to tell me just experiences sometimes that you go through with people either people that are portrayed to be Christians and they hurt you. So then you kind of, um, you kind of attach God to them because they've obviously bared his name and bared his label. So then, when they hurt, you think it's a reflection of God.

Speaker 3:

So I think moments like that it's more doubting like Lord, do you really love me or do you, you know? Are you, are you really for me? If you were so for me, this wouldn't have happened. If you really loved me, this wouldn't have happened. So I think it's those moments. But I think one thing the Lord has always reminded me is there's nothing wrong with doubt, like even John the Baptist doubted at one point, right um. So I think it does give me a safety net to to go to god with those questions and not feel like, oh, if I'm asking these questions, there's something wrong.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's like it's good to ask questions.

Speaker 2:

It is good to ask questions. I'd like to sorry.

Speaker 5:

Just kind of want to touch on that point there. I think that was a really good thing you just said about sometimes it's not like doubting god exists. It's doubting if god loves you, because sometimes you get to a point where things are going so wrong it's like you think, oh, not even do you love me or do I deserve to be loved and I think.

Speaker 5:

That's where a lot of people, especially in this day and age. They've tripped up, they've done something wrong. That's where they think. So it then becomes easier sometimes to think instead of thinking like oh he doesn't love me you then then think oh, he doesn't exist. I think that sometimes comes a lot easier to people.

Speaker 2:

So, Angela, what are the main challenges young Christians go through that you think parents are not aware of?

Speaker 4:

Oh, that is such a good question. Hmm, I would say compromise, compromise.

Speaker 2:

I would say compromise, compromise.

Speaker 4:

I'd say compromise. I think that's the main issue, okay, and I don't think it's a thing where, let's say, you have a young Christian, god is saying this is the way to go and Satan's handing them a fruit, like in Genesis. I think it's a thing of detaching from the culture that is around us that celebrates a lot of things which are just outright against God. I'd say that's the hardest thing as a young Christian. I'd say. For me personally, as a very ambitious Christian, one thing has also been kind of letting, not giving myself over to be compromised by renewing, like, the faith I have in God. What do I mean by that? I mean in terms of as a young Christian, an ambitious Christian.

Speaker 4:

Sometimes you feel like the world is offering something better than Christ.

Speaker 4:

I feel like that's such a big, big thing that is not talked about enough in terms of the way the world. You know, the loss of the eyes, the loss of the flesh, these things, the way the world markets itself to be so appealing that if young christians are not seated and rooted that it's so easy to get swayed. You know, there's so many times where god has walked me through my ideas, my ambitions and he's kind of really taken that and re-centered that to be on christ, because we cannot handle those alone. There's a reason why god gave us those dreams and ambitions, but if they're not given over to him, we might compromise in the name of trying to achieve our goals, trying to write our own stories, and I'd say, yeah, compromise for me is 100, one of the what, one of the things which I think is so easy for for christians to do, and it happens in such small ways, subtle ways, which lead up eventually to really big things, and you think, oh, how did that happen?

Speaker 2:

it all started with compromise do you have anything to add?

Speaker 3:

yeah, I would say, for me probably identity I think a lot, I think not just christians, a lot of young people.

Speaker 3:

They struggle with identity, yeah, right from a young age.

Speaker 3:

I feel like that's something the enemy loves to attack, um, and I feel like as well in the generation we live in because of social media, where you kind of see different types of identities out there and feel we have to sort of emulate one of them, um, and I feel like, growing up, if you're not, if you don't have an understanding of who you are in christ, you don't understand your identity in christ.

Speaker 3:

It's so easy to attach labels to yourself that god never gave you and then five, ten years later you're now trying to deal with the traumas of some of those labels you attach to yourself. Um, and it obviously comes also with partnering with lies that you believe about yourself, lies that the enemy puts onto you that you're this or you're that, and again, it takes I think it takes a lot of time and work, um, to then go back into those roots and really dig out those lies that you tend to believe. So I feel like, yeah, I think identity definitely. Like, as you're raising children, it's so important to speak those words of life to them, who God says they are and who God has called them to be, as opposed to them looking for their validation of their identity in the world amongst people who don't actually know who they are or what they may carry within themselves.

Speaker 2:

And that brings me to my next question. Your generation is regarded as Gen Z, and somebody says it's Gen Z fire for christ. Yet in the church, among your generation, there's so much depression, mental health and so many of these issues. Why is that the case? If you're on fire for god, generation on fire for god, why do we have this kind of situations amongst I feel like I think it goes back to the, the roots.

Speaker 3:

I think a lot of us probably experienced, quite because we were so exposed to a lot of things quite early on in our childhood growing up there's just a lot of maybe just seeds that were sown, that five, ten years later we see the fruits of it. But now it's like trying to undo all of that work, so like the foundations that we sort of built our lives on at first when it was outside of crisis. Now like going down into those roots, like even someone like me I'm, I would say I'm on fire for christ, but there's still so many parts of myself that the lord is like okay, we need to, we need to undo this, we need to undo this lie that you partnered with and that you know. This is a symptom of this. Anxiety, depression are usually symptoms of deeper like issues that someone might be facing. Um, so I think, like you can be on fire for god, love christ, you know be serving in church, but god still needs to do a healing work in you and sometimes that takes a lot of time to do.

Speaker 3:

Um, so yeah, anybody else expectation okay um I

Speaker 5:

think, um, I don't, it's really hard to like put into words, but I think sometimes, when you grow up, it's sort of you know, how I said earlier where it's like you've got to make your own journey with Christ. I feel like sometimes, when you grow up around like like it's growing up like in your household and then but then you've also got school, you've also got your friends, you've also got so many other things sometimes it feels like you can't be both and then you've got to pick one.

Speaker 5:

If you pick one, you have to act a certain way, and I think sometimes that gets, especially with things like social media stuff that catches up with you quickly yeah and I think that's what then leads to, like, your anxiety of this is oh, I've got to be, I've got to be this way if I'm gonna be the perfect christian, or stuff like that. Because unfortunately, there's so much negativity out there, especially when I think I touched on this when we had our episode uh, these days, especially when you're like not in the christian like community, there's quite a negative connotation around christianity when it doesn't like, when you're not in that community because of things that have happened in the past, and I think sometimes that does weigh on you. Like, if you have friends that aren't christians like you, you're happy to be who you are, but sometimes you kind of hear what they've been through and you're like oh so.

Speaker 5:

So now, what am I really like, you know? Am I, am I doing what's best? And I think expectation kind of crump like, crumples that a lot and then leads into doubt and then leads into a lot of what we've already spoken about do you have anything to add, angela?

Speaker 4:

I was just gonna say yeah, hmm, I would say I think I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Okay, I think the fact that we're feeling a lot of these human emotions is a good thing, so that god can deal with them now before we take them to our future families a lot of the time.

Speaker 4:

I was even discussing with my mom the other day that sometimes the reason why people break down and marriages like expose those deep flaws is because they've suppressed those things for years, for so many years, so many years, and me personally, I don't even know how that's possible, because I think that you know, once you really enter this relationship with christ, what the holy spirit does, like mary was saying is he really is in a process of removing you from those lies. So when those lies that have been with you for so long, when they're being removed, that's going to come with some pain. That's going to come with feeling a bit anxious you're vulnerable for god that's going to come with feeling a bit, you know, down and depressed, because now your worldview has been completely restructured. So these aren't necessarily bad things. I think they're just gateways.

Speaker 4:

You know, it says in the bible though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'll fear no evil, for you are with me A lot of the time. Before we venture into the light and that promised land that God has for us, we have to venture through the valley of the shadow of death. It says that we've been refined and tested in the furnace of affliction. These things are normal. I don't think these things actually should be looked down upon. I think the fact that we are feeling these things, it shouldn't be a thing to be romanticized. It should be a thing that we should think in a positive way. They're feeling this, they know about it, they're aware of it. It's because the holy spirit is doing a work and dealing with it okay, and dealing with them.

Speaker 2:

Okay, you've made a really, really, really good point there. Um, do you think that parents have too much expectations of young people?

Speaker 4:

I think it depends on parents, apparently, honestly the more I grow up, the more I grow up, I I see a. I think christian parents. Christian parents based on the christian parents I've seen. I would say based on a lot of the christian parents I've seen, truly christian. I think they do get the balance right you think so, yeah, maybe I'm just spoiled.

Speaker 4:

I'm just around. I think they they call their children to be better and to do things because they want good things for their children, yeah, but at the same time they don't demonize them for not meeting their expectations. Okay, let me explain. So let's say a child didn't do something. For example, I heard a story of a friend that he said usually his parents would expect the best and the best of him. He did really well all throughout school. Then when he went to university he had to repeat a year and he said in that moment he spoke to his parents and they had a really deep conversation and he said he didn't feel like he could tell them because of that burden of expectations. And eventually they did speak things through and all those built up years of anxiety and expectation that were resolved in one thread.

Speaker 4:

Because you know that christian character of having a humble mind to receive maybe, what your children are telling you about, what they think, ways. They think that you're not parenting well, um, you know, but still they know at the end of the day as well, if the child is in christ, that their parents are only doing that because they want the best for them. So I think that in order to get the balance right. It's a thing of that the more the kids grow, the more the parents also enable them to grow into their own characters, whilst the kid understands that their parents also still want the best for them. Yeah, I would say yeah, I think, in fact, just just to add on, when parents place too much expectation on their kids, the kids crash. I've seen it time and time again, that, christian or not Christian, when they place too much expectation on the kids, the kids crash. I think when there's some sort of freedom positive freedom, not negative freedom, positive freedom that is centered in Christ, it reaps good results.

Speaker 2:

Based on what I've seen, Based on what you just said about crashing. I remember a story of a young boy who got admission to study medicine and the mom went on the altar to give testimony my son's going to study medicine, blah, blah, blah. She was so excited and, unknown to her, the boy had gone to the pastor to say I really don't want to do this. This is not what I want to do. It's pressure from my mom. That's why I was asking if you think parents put unnecessary pressure on their children because he didn't want to do that. So the mom was the one happy about this medicine thing, but he didn't want that. And it was the pastor who now was able to say to the mom your child really wants to take a year out to chill and decide what he actually wants to do, and it was a real struggle for her to understand.

Speaker 2:

So this is why I'm wondering if maybe sometimes as parents we don't, maybe we're unwittingly. She wanted the best for the child. Okay, he was good in science and everything but.

Speaker 4:

Does she want the best for the child or is she trying to live her second life through him?

Speaker 2:

see that's, that might be the case, so I don't know.

Speaker 5:

That's what I was gonna say if sometimes, sometimes, like I mean, it's again as much as our parents like sometimes they know more of us, but they are still human, so sometimes they'll have that if there's an ambition that they feel like they didn't reach, sometimes, they could like sometimes not knowingly put it onto their child and I think that's whilst it can work, if it's what they want to do also, but sometimes it can make things worse and it can make people crash, as angela said.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I think it also leads to your child performing for you as opposed to actually being themselves. And I think it can go either way. Whether it's performing, because you hear a lot of stories about maybe it's like pastors' kids raising the church because their father or mother is a minister.

Speaker 3:

You know they're the PKs but then all of a sudden they're living sort of a different life yeah, and I think yeah, when, when there's that pressure there from your parents, you do sometimes feel like you have to perform, and then it can also come academically as well, just just trying to be your best academically to please your parents, um, but I think, as angela said, when you give your child that freedom, it allows them to be more authentic, even in the Christian sense, to actually find their authentic relationship with God, as opposed to just doing something because mum and dad said I have to do it yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

Next question do you think that the way the church teaches about sex is the right way to teach young people about sex? We're going to go there. Who wants to start? I'll start.

Speaker 5:

No, I don't, because all they this is what I mean by like with the expectation, especially when I was growing up in the church they don't say they hadn't said anything about it. They hadn't said anything about it. They hadn't said anything about what's really going on. All they say is sex is wrong, don't do it. But then they have to also understand we're living in, uh like, a period of time where aren't like you can like it's just on social media. You see stuff like that, not only just be like yeah, they're open about it.

Speaker 5:

There are people promoting it, there are people like people doing whatever, like whatever they want with it. And then there's your friends again, especially as you're growing into it, when, like you're a teenager, where you don't really understand what's going on, but because of everything you're seeing, you're thinking, oh, but what something can happen here right it's like you start looking for, you start looking for like excuses, because you're just, you're just being told you can't do it, you can't do it, and you know how kids are.

Speaker 5:

You keep telling them you don't, you can't do something eventually they're going to want to do it.

Speaker 5:

And I think with the church, they just said you mustn't do it, you mustn't do it. But then you are also again. I know this. I know this happened with people within the church.

Speaker 5:

Once I went to a youth I think it was like a youth service and they were talking about it and they were like I think someone said oh, they were like I think someone said, oh, one of the church pastors was saying, oh, would like, would do you want to wait until marriage to do it?

Speaker 5:

And no one, no one, had like anything to say. Like everyone said yes, and I could tell so many people in that show were lying until one person at that time spoke up and said if I could go back, maybe, but I don't know. And that's when the conversation opened up, when someone has said look my hands up, I had did have sex before marriage. But I think there needs to be that transparency there, because if you don't have the transparency and just say it's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong when you're seeing so many people outside of it saying no, it's actually really good. You, when you're seeing so many people outside of it saying no, it's actually really good, you'll come to conflict and then you'll end up doing something that you may not want to do.

Speaker 3:

Comes back to compromise that angela was talking about at the beginning yeah, yeah, and off the back of that as well, I think what the church didn't do is teach why they didn't teach. They say sex is wrong, but I don't say the why they don't say the. They don't teach enough about sex and personally I think the bible actually says sex is a good thing, but in the confines of marriage. That's what they tend to leave out. So it's like if all you're teaching children is don't do that, that's wrong. You're not teaching them why.

Speaker 3:

Why was sex created? What is it for? What's the purpose of it? When is it a good thing? Then you, you kind of leave children to then, as tem was saying here from the the wild, actually, no, sex is good, sex is good. And then they'll start wanting to actually explore that. Um, it's like dangling a sweet in front of a child saying no, you can't have it, you can't have it. Like it looks good but you're telling me I can't have it. Like eventually they're going to want to just try the sweet out for themselves.

Speaker 3:

Um, and I think yeah, I definitely think the church do demonize sex a lot, but again in the Bible we're actually told it's a good thing, it's how we've all come here today.

Speaker 3:

Right, it's how God reproduces humanity. So I think, yeah, I just think it's a level of teaching, just not demonizing sex, but also having grace on people who may have fallen into sexual sin. I think another thing the church do is like, if you fall in, that's it, like you don't want to talk to your, your, your, the other set of Christians who aren't, you know, as holy or righteous as thou. But I think it's also teaching the grace that Jesus does give to those who who are struggling with sexual sin in any way, and allowing them to feel that there's a space for them to speak, a space for them to express their you know where they are in life and their understanding of sex and even the struggles they may feel. Um, and then there's also the side of homosexuality as well, right, because that's a big part of it, another topic that everybody sort of, sort of doesn't want to speak about?

Speaker 3:

yeah, but I think again, a lot of children. You know, in today's world, being queer, being homosexual, is actually a very normal thing, so I think it's being able to speak about. You know what the bible teaches about it. But then still, people who do, um, identify as same-sex, attracted, being able to have, like they have, a space in the church as well to express how they feel, express how they navigate their walk with god in in those feelings.

Speaker 5:

So yeah, allowing grace is so, so important, because you don't want people to then start when they demonize it and then something happens, and then they demonize themselves, and then they get scared and then they start to walk away from the church I think it's very eye-opening now how many christian friends I do have at uni who are same-sex attracted like they.

Speaker 5:

They you never like. You don't see the struggle they have is so tough to witness because they are actively. You can say some of them are actively trying to fight it, but they don't. They believe in what they believe. But sometimes when you see it with them, like going through that, they feel, you see, like they feel like they hate themselves and that's not fair, that's not something that I, that's not something that the church should be like.

Speaker 5:

Uh, you know, like I've seen people that and when she, like for one of my friend of mine, wanted to join the choir, um at a church and they didn't let her because of because of that, and I feel like that's not fair. I feel like that's not fair because that that demonizes it and that pushes people away, which isn isn't what Christianity is about. It's about love. So we need to. Grace is so important.

Speaker 2:

Grace is important, angela.

Speaker 4:

What can I say? I would say the anecdote really to this issue of you know Christians. Kind of I would say sex is a very powerful thing and when you don't talk about it it's like putting, it's like trying to keep a fire, undercover it. Just it just never works. And that's why I was like skimming through you know the the bible, because I believe the bible has so many good things to say about it. In ephesians 5 I'm smiling right now. I just love, I just love the word. Ephesians 5 a'm smiling right now, I just love, I just love the word.

Speaker 4:

The vision 5 of soul says for it's shameful to even speak of those things which are done of them in secret, but all things which are approved are made manifest by the light or whatsoever doth make make manifest itself in light. And it also says that we are in verse 8, that we are called to walk as children of the light. What that means is actually speaking about things and letting them be displayed in the open. In genesis 1, when god says let there be light, he was speaking and things were, were being revealed. When we speak, things are revealed and you know the doubts that people have, the feelings that people have, those things can be exposed. I, I'm very much. I'm very much. I feel a bit sad for people who they may have had things to share and say when it comes to sex, but because they didn't have anyone to talk to, that was like again, that fire under trying to keep that fire undercover and it just exploded. And what did that look like? That probably looked like addiction to sex that might have manifested itself in you know, um, sexual curiosity and and just the whole deep, dark road of those things. I think it just really comes from not talking about it. From my experience, what has really helped me is talking to my friends about it. Oh, bro, what's this? Oh, have you felt like this? Oh, yeah, I'm not sure about this. Okay, yeah, I felt like that too. And then you don't feel you know, like temi was saying, you don't feel alienated from your people, you don't feel alienated from the church.

Speaker 4:

I believe also what meron was saying about you know, homosexuality. I think, whilst it's good to talk about that, and I think there is a place to talk about that one thing, that I was even talking with um, one of my old leaders, before, and she said that we both agreed that actual ethical like, like sex the way god intended between man and woman. That's also not spoken enough about in church. Because I'll go online and I'll be hearing this type of sex is wrong. That type of sex is wrong and I'm thinking I've never heard this before.

Speaker 4:

So now when let's say, god willing, I get married and I'm trying to do what humans do, will I then be bringing shame from that into the marriage? Because it doesn't go away until you speak about it? That's one of the things which I've learned and I think, when it comes to sex, you really do have to speak about it. That's one of the things which I've learned and I think, when it comes to sex, you really do have to speak about it. You really do have to be open. Again, I think I'm just I think like god has really blessed me in that department, because my mom she's a psychosexual therapist and the amount of problems that people are going through because of child it's, it's, and I think if they don't speak about the stuff, that's how people go down these deep, dark roads that sometimes leave permanent scars, and the church really needs to just talk, just talk about it let's talk about it.

Speaker 2:

Let's talk about it, okay. So do you think that parents should start talking to their children positively, because we need to talk about the positive aspects of it and everything. Do you think parents need to start talking to their children early about it and, if so, from what age do you think is the appropriate age and what do you think they should be telling them?

Speaker 3:

I mean, when did we start learning about sex in school? We started learning quite young, didn't we?

Speaker 5:

I mean, the first lesson I remember was like year six. But it was like literally just a one-off lesson and then that's it. And then suddenly you get thrown to secondary school where it's just in biology and everything you talk about. So it's like I don't know, would I have benefited from it earlier? I'm not sure. I think in general, though I think sometimes it will depend on the child as well.

Speaker 5:

So it's hard to put like a general number, but I think, yes, definitely benefit from talking about in a positive light because I think, especially coming from your parents, that's some you know, that's some, that's people you know, that's people you trust. I feel like, with something like that, because you have to like accept that sex is something that people can easily get addicted to. So with something like that, you need proper guidance. And who better to get guidance from? From your parents sometimes.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I agree, 100 I'm. I'm gonna be the kids. My kids need to hear about what I have to say, about how they were created, before institutions tell them about how they were created. More so about more so, before institutions start telling them about different, experimental ways people pervert what god intended sex for. I, yeah, I would say for me personally.

Speaker 4:

I think that when parents talk to their kids about sex, kids feel safe. And because kids feel safe, kids don't feel the need to go and get answers. When kids don't feel safe, then they feel the need to get answers and that's when they go to porn, that's when they go to, I don't know, maybe, a club or this, and that that's when they go looking for these answers themselves. And I would say, especially, the more political I'm not really trying to get into politics, but the more politics begins to manifest itself by trying to infiltrate educational institutions. I think it's so key that we talk to our children about sex A lot of the time.

Speaker 4:

The reason why people have sex addiction, like Temu was talking about, is because they've been seeing things as early as six, seven, eight years old, and I'm thinking I was just watching on a big blue bear in a big blue house when I was six or seven.

Speaker 4:

I don't even know what kind of how that changes the brain chemistry of a little kid when stuff like that is a what is awoken before it's time. But then, if you know, and sometimes also for parents as well, I think they kind of overestimate the Understanding, not the understanding, but more so they overestimate just how much their kids can find and explore for themselves, especially in this digital age. A lot of the time kids find all sorts of stuff when their parents are absent. You know sometimes they'll just say, oh, just leave the kids to go and play. You know, it's also those small things as well that sometimes kids, when they're left unattended, they'll also feel the need to explore. Um, yeah, I would say that's what I have to say when you, when you, yeah, so bringing that back, when parents talk to their children about sex, kids feel safe and they don't feel the need to go and explore in order to find answers.

Speaker 2:

I agree.

Speaker 3:

I think as well, taking into consideration siblings with older. So children with older siblings tend to also get exposed to things like this quite early on, because either maybe their older brother or sister is dating someone and they've seen or they've heard something. So I think angelica said, like they do kids, we do get exposed to sex, or or just the curiosity of what that could be about quite a young age. So I think I I think, as um temi was saying, depends on the child, but I think yeah, when, when parents start to see signs that maybe their kid could stop, it's asking questions like oh, mum, what's the birds and the bees?

Speaker 3:

You know there's like little questions that kids ask, I think, just being honest with them, obviously in still like a child-friendly way, but I think, being honest and not painting it like you know, demonising it like no, don't ever it's not something you should do da-da-da-da, I sort of begin to introduce them to that topic yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2:

Um angela said something about um pornography and I had a question here because apparently I was listening to um I think it was a podcast I was listening to recently and they were saying that pornography has been on the rise lately and it has become really, really topical. So I was wondering, I was going to ask, why do you think has become so topical? Is it that it's always been hidden, or why is it now so much? Why are they talking so much about?

Speaker 4:

it on the social media and everywhere, because it's everywhere yeah you know even when you mentioned, it's always been there. But now, in this digital age, it's everywhere. You know, I even thought the holy spirit now as we're talking, because for me this topic is so important to me, because pornography is so everywhere that because it's everywhere, people kind of dilute its effect. It becomes a normalized part of society we're talking about that.

Speaker 4:

People don't talk about the people don't talk about the effects. People don't. That's the thing I feel like. I've been so privileged thank to god that I hear these stories of couples because they've been introduced to sex through pornography. When they go and now have sex, it's nowhere near and it doesn't. It doesn't match up or add up. Now they can't do the thing that they were supposed to do together. I think that I think the reason why pornography is being spoken about it's not even just being spoken about in the christian space, it's being spoken about in the mainstream space this was a mainstream podcast.

Speaker 4:

Scientists are saying look, this thing is damaging. This thing changes your brain chemistry. This thing changes your brain structure. This thing alters the way you look. This thing, whether you know it or not, actually begins to wire your brain to think in a very misogynistic way, or, for women, it'll wire your brain to think in a way that also reduces men to objects.

Speaker 4:

People don't talk about this. That, just like any drug, when you take more of it, you want another hit, a deeper dose, just like with pornography and the way it releases dopamine in order to get that same high. You're going to want to take a deeper dose. You're going to want to take a deeper dose. You're going to want to go into things more explicit, things that you never went into before. And so the reason why it's being spoken about is because it's killing people and people don't want to die. People want to do things that god made them to do and enjoy, because sex is so much better than pornography. But again, it's a quick, fast food economy. People would rather go to mcdonald's, then go home and really create a nice, beautiful meal from scratch is again, it's this microwave culture. So when it comes to things like sex, because it's a mic. We've made an economy out of sex. That's, that's pornography. It sells, sex sells, and so the reason why it's been spoken about is because we're realizing that, even though sex sells, sex also can kill.

Speaker 5:

If not, if not done, yeah, um, I'll say that's what it is for me yeah, I think to add on to like not only is it everywhere, it's so easy to access like you don't have to like, really, you don't have to do anything. Sometimes it will just show up. You didn't even.

Speaker 5:

It just shows up sometimes and you can't do like much about it and that's why it can be so damaging, especially for like kids. It's so bad sometimes with kids that will just go on social media and we'll just see something they're not meant to and then suddenly there are things that have just completely changed. Um, porn is such a awkward thing to talk about sometimes because I feel like especially again, like trying to talk about it, it feels embarrassing sometimes because it feels like you know it's true, it's killing people and I feel like there's a point in time physically killing people. Yes, I was gonna. There's trending about this one girl, oh dear, she was filming something and like you can, you can see, like her reactions to it this is Lily Phillips.

Speaker 5:

Yes, yeah so essentially she did this thing where? You don't have to go into the graphics but the long and short of it she did.

Speaker 3:

She tried to sleep with 100 men in one day and she wants to beat the world, world record and do it to like a thousand men in one day in one day, yeah yeah, here's the the thing with it.

Speaker 5:

When someone filmed like the documentary about how she you can tell like she is so unhappy with herself, like I don't know, I think someone's like how do you feel? And it's like everything you could tell, like for smell, she's so, and I think that's the point of how it's damaging. You could tell that that that goes. So she looks so unhappy, she looks so unpleasant and you, and it's terrible because not with that situation they've brought in people who I think are also suffering from pornography addiction. So what's happened is she brought people who are suffering from this to then get this like with the fast food culture thing. It's something that's not what it should be and I think she's exposed herself to that and exposed all these guys to that and it's just it spreads. I would. I would put it this way porn's a virus yeah, porn is a porn, is a virus.

Speaker 5:

That's how I would say it.

Speaker 4:

It's a virus for real. Yeah, it's a virus for real. Um, yeah, even merriman and I were talking about this the other day because she, she told me about it. I didn't. I didn't know what was going on and we're just thinking why on earth would someone do this? Why, why, why would someone do this? And there was, there was, plenty of different speculations, but one of the things which I kind of do to emphasize the point that sex sells, that also kills, is that she was commodifying her body for money, but in the end, it was also killing her and and it's, yeah, it's.

Speaker 4:

That's honestly a sad story, and for the, for the men, for the men too as well. I think they're also just as bad. Just as bad for for not only doing that, but then they are also victims themselves of of that virus and how it's depraved their minds to a point that there was even one story in regards to that. A guy flew from sweden yeah, sweden. For what? Two minutes of of of damaging sex for to this, to this lady, like that's not normal it's not normal.

Speaker 5:

There's nothing around the conversation and I think not that it's a good thing that's happened, but this is the first time in a while people actually had the open discussion of is this? This is so bad because you've no one's ever really seen, like no one ever. People rarely see the damage it does to these people that are in the industry until it does kill them and then you hear about it.

Speaker 5:

But this person is trying to even break what she's done and know everyone in this situation is talking about it and the one word they've used to describe it is self-harm yeah, I think from like just coming from a woman's standpoint as well, just the objectifying, like objectifying her body.

Speaker 3:

But I think it is something that we've seen spread into our culture today that you go on social media, you see a lot of girls maybe feeling that they have to post more explicit content of themselves or post in a certain way, wear a certain type of outfit that you know accentuates a certain part of their body, because that's the only way they'll be able to attract the male gaze or the male attention. And I think that's part of the damage that the pornography, like the culture of porn, has really done to women.

Speaker 3:

Um, evidently, this girl saying to and she probably does have quite low, you would think you would think the opposite, but she probably has quite low self-esteem if you have that many men just only coming to you for one thing and I think it's, yeah, it's definitely something for women as well just to understand that they're more than just their bodies. They're more than just how they look.

Speaker 4:

Their worth isn't stemmed from whether a man thinks you know they're worth 10 minutes or whatever like in addition to that, I would say it's also a thing, for it's funny, because I was reading uh it was, I think in peter. Yeah, first peter, where it talks about how women should adorn themselves, not just on the outer appearance, but on the inward appearance. For men as well, they're not only attracted. Well, for a man to actually truly be able to love a woman, and for a woman to be able to truly love a man, it's not just to fall in love with the exterior, but also the interior. God made us like spiritual beings as well and physical beings, so that both of those realms can intersect and create a beautiful product of real intimacy. Yeah, I'll just add on to that point as well that she definitely does have low self esteem and, again, like we said, sometimes the stuff starts in the house because her mum and dad are the ones who are actually helping her run this campaign.

Speaker 5:

Really, that's sad, but this is exactly what I was saying, that all of this comes back to people looking for their own answers. Because I think a lot of. I think if someone would run the statistic, you would find a lot of these people who are, like, addicted to these kind of things are religious because I think it's been told to them at an age that, no, don't do this until your marriage, don't do this, don't do that. It's just been a hard no. So when something that can be so easily like you know, the dangling, the sweet in front of them when they start looking for their own answers.

Speaker 5:

I think that's why it's so important to give give your child your answers, and then they can learn from you instead of having to learn from the internet, on the internet okay, we'll move on from there.

Speaker 2:

One question I wanted to ask was about dating. I think the dating, whatever space has changed now. Because I hear your group of people say I'm talking to this person. I'm thinking you're talking to that person. I don't understand what that means. You know, how you meet a girl, you meet a guy, you like them. You say I like you, you know, but it seems like everything is complicated. Now why is it so complicated? Please can somebody explain that to me, because I don't understand it we'll try to understand, yeah am I wrong?

Speaker 4:

you're saying it's gotten complicated no, my sister said the exact same thing the other day. It used to be very simple. Yeah, she said the exact same thing the other day.

Speaker 2:

I'm talking to that person, so you're talking to that person and you're I don't get it. And yet you're not in a relationship. But you're talking, you're in the talking phase and then it moves to another phase. How come?

Speaker 3:

I feel like it's very simple. I feel like, because we're such a consumer generation, we've taken that into the dating pool as well. It's like you know what everyone's afraid of commitment. Everyone just wants to try this out and maybe if it doesn't work, let me try another person, if that doesn't work, let me try another thing. I think we're very consumer, like we just want to try, try, try different things, and no one actually wants to make that commitment to like okay, this one person, let me actually take the time to pursue them, to know them, you know, to see.

Speaker 3:

Even well, I guess it's from the Christian standpoint if this is who God is, you know, saying is the right person for me in the start in this season. Um, but I think, yeah, we, we're, we're afraid of commitment. I think a lot of. But I think even just because of the dating culture, probably when we all grew up, like in six, when we were 16, 17, a lot of people probably got their hearts broken. So now everyone's just like yeah, I'm not gonna put any labels, you know, we'll talk for maybe like seven months and then see if we can even call each other if we say we're dating. So I think a lot of people are just afraid these days yeah, and then I hear something about situationships and I'm thinking yeah, that's, that's please.

Speaker 5:

That's a whole new thing, okay, I mean, yeah, to answer your question.

Speaker 5:

Even we don't know it is it's, I think, the dating pool right now is because, like you said, it's quite consumerist. It also that also makes it reactionary. So whenever, whenever something happens that could shift your view, sometimes that shifts everyone's view, sometimes that shifts only yours, sometimes it's just a couple of people. No one really knows it's, yeah, it's. It's quite hard. So you kind of have to, I guess, in a way, kind of decide like where, where you want to go from here, I think um, earlier, when we're talking about that one, I think that one youth sex thing I went to what?

Speaker 5:

uh, one of the good things the pastor said is that regardless of everything, it's best that it's like he put it in like a graph and that you should always like walk, I think, on the x-axis, go towards god and there will. There will be an intersection point where that partner is found, but as long as you don't stray off that part. If you go away to then find it, it may take longer and it may not be as satisfying, so you should always stay it pretty much that's how I say kind of always stay on that path to god and it will intersect at the time it is planned to intersect.

Speaker 4:

I like that yeah, I think as well that I like that adding on to the consumerist as well.

Speaker 4:

Part of the consumerist generation is that people are very picky with what they want. Me too, I'm quite picky. So it's like, if it's not this and that and it doesn't look like this and that, then I don't want it, and so that's why people also kind of stand on the fence a bit, but also I say a number. A second thing is also perhaps it's not spoken about enough. Even in our church, you know, we were having a men's um discussion and I wasn't. I wasn't part, I wasn't really the the target audience, because I'm quite young, it was mainly for these 25 plus guys, and one of the pastors was saying you guys, the ladies are complaining that you're not um, that you're not talking to them, that you're not dating them, and I feel one reason for that was they are really trying to figure them out.

Speaker 4:

Just because somebody is in church as well doesn't necessarily mean that that person is for you. Just because that person's in christ doesn't mean that person necessarily for you, but also because of this culture of we're not going to talk about, we're going to keep ourselves to ourselves. Just because that person's in Christ doesn't mean that person necessarily for you, but also because of this culture of we're not going to talk about, we're going to keep ourselves to ourselves. People are afraid to kind of just put themselves out there. People are afraid to look stupid. But I feel as if you know, I've looked stupid so many times but looking stupid is part of how you learn, how you get up.

Speaker 4:

You know you fall over as a kid. You get up, you scrape your knee, you move on. It's inevitable, hurt is inevitable, pain is inevitable. But I feel as if the fear that people have of that is what's causing them to play games. It's what's causing them to not make their intentions clear. It's not causing them to to just be open and up front with people. You know people are now trying to play games with people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, simple as and I'm hearing so much about so many narcissists in the church today on the dating scene so I'm thinking so why why?

Speaker 4:

I think maybe for that I haven't heard personally of narcissism, any narcissism, god forbid any narcissism but I think people are starting to realize that people can say they love Jesus, but if their heart isn't consecrated onto Jesus, it's going to show. One of the things I've been thinking about a lot recently is you'll know them by their fruits. Sometimes people will have their Bible up front and open, and obviously we're all not going to be perfect examples of Christ, but there are also some people who they may be in the church. We even see this with leaders. Yeah, they die and you find out they did a whole lot of warped things in their life. You know how did that happen?

Speaker 4:

Because their character wasn't right, because their heart wasn't given over to christ, and so I think another reason as well, maybe for the people who are slightly more aware, is they don't want to necessarily just talk to someone or or venture into a relationship with someone who's not aligned, like Tim was talking about, with that character of Christ, who's not on that path that they are on. You know, because I thought as if for me personally, one of the biggest things I've learned is when, when you really taste that perfect love of God, it says that the perfect love of God casts out all fear, because there's no fear in perfect love. You're not going to be afraid of whether God has someone for you, because God has himself for you, and you're not going to be afraid of making your intentions clear with other people Just because you know whatever you already have that supply of eternal love from God. From God, wow.

Speaker 2:

We've really exceeded. We've exceeded our time slot for today, but no, worries, I love it when we have conversations like this that go on and on and on, because I've really, really enjoyed this. But before we come to the end of the show, I'm going to ask everyone individually how would you? I always end my show on a note of hope. So what would you say to somebody out there, young person out there, who's struggling to navigate this world that we're living in today? And just what can you say to encourage people? So, just to keep one after the other who would like to go first?

Speaker 5:

uh, I can go because I think, like I said, we had a similar conversation before. Okay, I think communication is so key and I think if, um, if you are really struggling, like, with these kind of things, go to your parents, go to your church, just go, go to someone, because when you keep all of these things inside, that's when things can go wrong that's when you implode, and imploding is the worst thing you can do, because that will forever just weigh on you so my best option is go to go to church, go to your family, just talk.

Speaker 5:

And if you feel like you, absolutely and regardless of who you talk to, or even if you don't talk to one, anyone talk to god, just make sure you talk. And so, because, as long as you talk, that at least that way you're getting it out some way, don't keep it bottled up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, my advice would be just talk, okay um, I would say to the young person trying to, I guess, navigate as well, but also navigate their walk with christ. My I was come for me. It was comes back down to identity know that you're loved, know that you're seen, know that you're valued, know that you're chosen and know that you're special. And know the word, because the word is what will tell you, give you that insight into how God sees you.

Speaker 3:

And I think a lot of uh, trauma, a lot of the things we experience is usually because we don't actually believe who God says we are. We don't believe who he's's already said we are. We look for validation from other people, end up getting in messy relationships because of that. But I think focus on knowing who you are in Christ, knowing all that God has said about you and all that God is doing in you and wants to do through you, and allow his word to be what you believe about yourself. Not what another person says, not what society tells you you should believe about yourself, but what god's word says about yourself.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I was actually going to say a very similar thing, um, actually kind of encompassing both points that have been said. Firstly, I'll say talk to god, because he does speak back that's why he gave us the holy spirit.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and you know, communication is key, like tell me what's saying. But I would also say, in addition to that, read the word, like mary was saying, and study it. And not in addition to that, read the word, like Merrim was saying, and study it. And not only study it, but really plaster it onto your heart, because God gave you that as as medicine for, for, for whatever challenge and trial arises in your life good, so read the word, plaster it on your heart, plaster, real plaster.

Speaker 3:

Bandage it, don't let it go off ever.

Speaker 2:

Don't let it go off ever. Really, I agree with that one. Don't let it go off ever. Know who you are in Christ, know your worth in Christ and talk to God about it. Thank you so so much. It's really been very interesting. I'm going to ask you guys back sometime soon. I have loved this interesting. I'm going to ask you guys back sometime soon. I have loved this conversation and I have so many questions but I've not been able to ask all of them.

Speaker 2:

But at some point we'll probably do another one, If you'd love to come back.

Speaker 4:

We would love to.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so so much.

Speaker 4:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, hopefully we'll have you back soon. So thank you so much, and thank you all for listening to navigating the chapters of challenge with tele today. Thank you for listening to my wonderful guests. I'm so happy that I've had them on today, because this is something I've been wanting to do for a while and it's really, really been a great time and I hope you had fun too. And, um, hopefully you join us again on another episode of navigating the chapters of challenge. Until then, stay blessed, thank you you.