Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Growing Together: Navigating Personal Growth and Partnership in Marriage

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Can partners in a marriage grow at different paces without losing their connection? Join us as Fela shares his insights on navigating the complexities of marriage and personal growth. We promise you’ll uncover valuable tools for fostering mutual understanding and trust even when life’s path seems uneven. Our conversation covers the intricate dance between supporting your partner's development and ensuring your own aspirations are not lost, highlighting scenarios where one partner might pause their advancement for the other’s benefit.

We explore critical dynamics that come into play when partners experience divergent growth trajectories, whether professionally or personally. By focusing on the importance of awareness and communication, especially concerning often-overlooked topics like menopause, we discuss the necessity of redefining success based on personal fulfillment rather than societal standards. Through real-life examples, such as a husband adjusting his work life to support his wife's career advancement, we emphasize the power of collaboration over competition. This episode underscores how consciously uplifting each other can transform your relationship into a true partnership.

As we unravel the challenges of creating shared goals and maintaining balance, we delve into the significance of personal space and boundaries within relationships. Trust plays a pivotal role, allowing partners the freedom to be themselves without feeling threatened. By sharing stories of couples who have successfully navigated these challenges, we offer insights into maintaining privacy and respecting boundaries. Whether it’s the nuances of phone privacy or acting as each other’s cheerleaders, this episode offers guidance on fostering a relationship where both partners can thrive individually and together, ensuring both personal needs and joint aspirations are met. Listen in for a heartfelt discussion on nurturing a balanced and fulfilling partnership.

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Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today I've got Fela in the house with me again and he's here to just share some thoughts with me, and I'd just like Fela to say hello to us and then we'll take off with today's topic. So say hello to everyone, fela.

Speaker 3:

Hello and thank you for another nice time in the presence of God and your audience, and thank you for having me again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're glad to have you here again. So today's topic is marriage and personal growth and the challenges that couples have with um when in their marriage and their own personal growth and um. Personal growth is a natural part of life, but many couples struggle when the growth is not at the same pace when they're think this is the situation it's um.

Speaker 3:

I think it growing at the same pace is um dependent on several factors. Okay, now it's um. If be using I mean take using an example of um two people who are professionals, okay, it would mean, you know, getting the necessary professional qualifications after their initial um certificate, professional certifications after their initial qualifications in their respective fields. Now, it now depends on and again there'll be several factors that will affect that. There are emotional states, there are physical states, there are financial states, there are home environment. Those things may pose challenges, even the work itself where they're trying to get the necessary certification. There'll be different roadblocks and different challenges. So how each person now navigates those challenges is what will now determine how quickly they grow. And again, sometimes it may even mean one person stopping for one person to move on and then the other person catching up catching up yeah, but all of that will need good environment and good understanding of what is required.

Speaker 3:

Okay, and it would also mean both parties being committed to one another to enable each person get the best.

Speaker 3:

Why I say that is I've had instances where it may be the woman that said okay, you know what, because of maybe the children or this, we both can't do this exam or do X, y, z, so let me hold back, you do this in the next two to three years. When you have finished that, I can start. Then, two years come, the woman wants to, and for several factors, things now have changed and the man is saying look, if I stall now it's going to affect this. Maybe he's by the time he's finished those qualifications, he's almost ready to become maybe a partner or something, and he's like if I don't push, I'm going to lose this and the woman is going to feel to become maybe a partner or something, and it's like if I don't push, I'm going to lose this and the woman is going to feel hang on, we had an agreement.

Speaker 3:

How about the things that I have stopped?

Speaker 2:

Just to let you move forward, just to let you move forward. And.

Speaker 3:

I think even at that time the response should not be if I stop now, let you move forward. And I think even at that time the response would not, should not be if I stop now. The response probably should be look, we are gripped two years for three years. I need another two.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

To optimize what I've done and if that person and you have to make that person see why and not just why you're asking them to make that sacrifice, you have to now commit to them what you will be doing to fill in the gap, because it's. It's what do you mean? Fill in the gap? Because it's.

Speaker 2:

What do you mean? Fill in the gap?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's sometimes it's like a trade-off. It's like it's like they say opportunity cost. This person is living something. Yeah. What does she get in return?

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

So in return might be whatever is suitable to both parties. So in growth. If one person is stalling for the other to move, then what does he or she get in return while? She's waiting Exactly.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So in this scenario that you've just painted, the man has said okay, give me another two more years, because I think with another two more years I can optimize what I have done so far. So how is the woman supposed to say what is she getting in return? What kind of thing could she get in return?

Speaker 3:

When I say get in return, is you now have to be offering her that? Look, we agreed two or three, it's going to be five. Yeah. One.

Speaker 2:

when I achieve this or when we get to this point, you will have this so what if you get the five years up and then there's another opportunity to optimize even further? Then she has to wait again.

Speaker 3:

This is where the issue of trust and thinking about the other party. Yeah, and that's what I mean by what does she get okay in return. If she's stopping, if she's slowing down her career, yeah, it's for you to move on. How are you making it up to her so she does not feel left?

Speaker 2:

used.

Speaker 3:

Okay, because that's the exact that is what is going to boil down to okay, she does not feel used that you're not using her to step up and then abandon her because now she's beneath you, quote unquote so that's why it sounds transactional. Yeah, but that's the only way it would make her feel she's not losing out. If you make the offer that look, say, for instance, let me break it down to look, I'm trying to find a suitable, I mean, it's not necessary that this is how it's going to work in every situation for anyone.

Speaker 3:

I mean, this is just a scenario if, if in those years she hasn't been on, she's not taking a holiday by herself or something. Offer her something okay to make her feel well, look, she's not taking a holiday by herself, or something. Offer her something Okay To make her feel Well, look, this is not buying your time. This is showing appreciation for what you're doing. Okay, but you have to come good on your word.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so that's the thing.

Speaker 3:

And she has to believe you will come good on your word On your word.

Speaker 2:

So that's the issue of the trust. That's exactly.

Speaker 3:

So that's where the issue of trust, if the woman is going to find it difficult.

Speaker 2:

The woman or the man, it could be either way.

Speaker 3:

The party could find it difficult If every time you've made a promise on things that are very little, you've managed exactly. You've gone back on your word, she's never going to believe you. In fact, that offer in the first instance how wait you go? Would never be on the table yeah, yeah, yeah but.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but can't the couple grow? Can't a couple grow together? Is it impossible for him to be progressing and doing whatever he's chasing and for her to be chasing her own dreams as well at the same time? Is that not possible?

Speaker 3:

It's very possible. Okay, I just use that depending on the scenario and the environment in every relationship and family. That scenario that I painted, I was looking at a family with young children who would need attention, need attention then you're going to.

Speaker 3:

There are so many things, especially in this part of the world, that you have to. I don't want to use the word content with, but there are responsibilities that you have to fulfill that is time consuming. So if both of you were to go on, if both of you are pushing at the same time, something is going to suffer. Something will suffer, except you can employ someone. But even employing someone, can that person actually fill that role as like a parent will Will? So that's the challenge, so that's the kind of scenario that was in my mind when I painted that picture.

Speaker 2:

That does not mean that's the way it's going to work for every person you see, what I have a problem is is the fact that even when people are getting married, or even in marriage counseling, I'm and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard it being said I don't, I've not. Well, it's been a while since we had marriage counseling and our marriage counseling was one hour, that's it done. So there wasn't much said anyway. But, um, I've not heard people talk about the fact that in a marriage, the couple might start off at a point, at a specific starting point, but as the years, years go by, they begin to evolve, they begin to change, they begin to desire different things, and this can be a problem. This can lead to a problem if there's no understanding. So do you want to talk on that a bit?

Speaker 2:

Why is it that we're not told these things? Because many times we then get but he has changed, or she has changed, or she's not as pushy as she used to be, or she's not as ambitious as she used to be, or he's not as ambitious as he used to be. Things change, focus changes. Why don't we discuss this more often? Why aren't people aware of this? And then it becomes like a surprise. That's my experience, from what I've heard and seen. You know, I may not I mean, it may not be the same the situation now, but that's what I've seen in the past. So why do you think that's the case? And if you, if you've seen something like that, why would you? Why would that be the case?

Speaker 3:

um, like that phrase, I think is in latin, says nemo.

Speaker 2:

That quote non habet okay, you can't give what you don't have Exactly.

Speaker 3:

Many of the counselors we had a counselor can only give you, especially the ones that are not professional, can only give you. You can only tap into their own bank of experience. So they can only talk to you based on what they know and what they feel yeah take, for instance and this is just a little digression the issue of menopause. So many women say my mom never told me, her mom never told her doesn't mean that she shouldn't have told us she didn't even know, probably didn't have told us, she didn't even know, probably didn't know.

Speaker 3:

The things that a lot of women talk about now, that there's a big drive and focus on menopause, and why you know many organizations, many places they're talking about it now is because people have become more aware. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

But there was no awareness. So someone can give you what they don't have. So that's the first thing. But when we talk about growth and change, it boils down to again good communication and awareness of your spouse. I read a story once of a man whose wife. Very early in their marriage, the wife was offered a job as a vice president of a big organization and the man was an architect, I think she was into banking. When she got the offer she could not tell her bosses that she was going to take it.

Speaker 3:

She said she has to discuss this and they said look, it's a good opportunity, we don't want you to miss it. She said, yes, but I have to talk to take it. She said she has to discuss this and they said look, it's a good opportunity, we don't want you to miss it. She said, yes, but I have to talk to my husband. I don't know how this is going to work, because it's going to mean a lot of hours away from home and so many things. When she got home and she broke it down to that, look, I got this offer.

Speaker 3:

And the man was like oh wow, congratulations, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. And he was more excited and the wife stopped and looked at it and said but you know what this means? The man said yes, I know what it means. What it means is I will resign and I'm an architect, I don't have to go out. I will resign and work from home. And the wife was like, seriously, I said look, if you pass this opportunity, if you let it slip, you will not be happy. Not be happy if I change. All I'm going to be doing is changing the way I work. It's not affecting what I do. So you go, I will hold forth and that was what they did and the woman was so grateful to her husband. But that was because one the husband and wife and I think that's one of the challenges when it comes to growth is people see themselves as competitors.

Speaker 2:

And not a team.

Speaker 3:

And not a team. So the moment a couple husband is competing with a wife or vice versa is a recipe for disaster, is a recipe for disaster.

Speaker 4:

The man saw himself this is now the role I have to play, to make this family move forward, and he switched.

Speaker 3:

It may have been that was straightforward for them. It may not be that straightforward for many. But, it would need considerations because no, except in a field like the Olympic Stadium, 100 meters is a street line. Life is not like that. There are many turns and ups and downs and you have to navigate them, so it will be dependent on very good like.

Speaker 3:

I said, the first thing is the family unit. Husband, wife see themselves as a team. They're not competing. The man does not think by the time my wife moves to this level, I don't fit in. But now, the responsibility now is for the party who is moving ahead to make sure they're bringing the other party along because, I mean, these things happen subconsciously.

Speaker 3:

You can become a high flyer and all of a sudden the conversations and the kind of things you used to talk about in the house that were interesting no longer interest you, because now you're talking with people of a higher IQ. Whatever you think, your wife is a drag, she's dragging you and what have you. And you know it's a conscious thing. You have to make your other half feel not just feel know that they belong in the team.

Speaker 2:

So, if it means dressing them up, if it means exposing them, if it means building them up, educating them, whatever it takes, Whatever it takes to pull them, to pull them. To pull them off?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and you have to make it. It's a conscious thing, not just something. If the other side of it is, one person might be trying to pull someone. Unfortunately, the way it works in gravity, it's easier to pull down than to pull up. So it it's a lot and that has the awareness has to be there If you're trying to pull someone to come to your level you are the one that has to do most of the work.

Speaker 2:

And it mustn't be forced as well. I must say that because the other party might feel like okay, so now you're up there, you think that I'm no good. Therefore you must push me, or rush me into becoming like you. What if I don't want to be like you?

Speaker 3:

Say again. In that instance it would be like when people say someone has succeeded, we tend to equate success with status, finance and all that, Whereas success for someone may just be. It's like the case of Moses and Aaron. Aaron was only. His fulfillment, while Moses was alive, was to hold his hand up. If he attempted to say, look, now I'm here on, he would have missed this calling, and that's what happens sometimes. So if someone, if you feel someone has, it's all about what the person wants not what you think they want.

Speaker 3:

They should want Not what you think they want or what you think they should want. Not what you think they should want, not what you think they want, or you think they should want, yeah, not what you think they want, not what you think they should want, but what they want. However, if you think what they want because sometimes what we want may not even be the best for us you can help shape the thought process and how to get there, but it cannot be forced it cannot be forced.

Speaker 2:

It cannot be forced, but can deferring life goals become a point of contention? For instance, I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to do business. I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to do business, I want to go after business. I don't want to do the nine to five whatever anymore. You want to be nine to five, you want to go to the top of your career, and we have totally different views when it comes to that. So how would a couple who's in that kind of scenario, how would they deal with that? And should that lead to conflict? Would it lead to conflict?

Speaker 3:

it shouldn't, provided both parties know the path to achieve what they want. Okay, because it's one thing for me to be in business. It's another thing for me to be in business. It's another thing for me to know what it takes to be in business.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Because I may want to be in business, why? See? This is where, when you get to a point, you have to ask those questions why, why, why, why, why? And then you get to the point where there's no more why's. There's almost always a why. So if you say you just contradicted yourself no, there's almost, but you get to a point where you there's nothing else for you to want to ask. Someone says I want to be in business. First question is why?

Speaker 2:

someone says I want to get to the top of my of the lad career. Yeah, you should also be asking that person why why no, no, yes, it's why.

Speaker 3:

Why do you want to do that? Oh, personal satisfaction. I think I can do very well in it. You know, come up with your reasons. Okay, this person wants to go in business. What does it take? What is it going to take you? Oh, it's going to take you, oh, it's going to take. You need the finance, you need this, you need that. Okay, now, what projections do you have? Because by the time you start asking those why's, you may help someone to actually understand that, yes, I want this, but I'm not ready.

Speaker 2:

But what? My question is if they're both certain and they've answered all the why's and they know, yes, this is what I want, and they're both on completely different paths, how does that not lead to conflict?

Speaker 3:

or being the best you can be in your field. There shouldn't be conflict. What brings conflict is where one party feels what I do is more important than yours.

Speaker 2:

I bring in more money.

Speaker 3:

I have more contacts. Many things I do have brought us to this level. Remove me from the equation and you are nobody. The moment you start to look down on the contributions of your spouse. Yeah, that's where the conflict.

Speaker 2:

That's where the problem always arises, recipe for disaster.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and you'll always find that 90% of the time, it's because there are some voices outside saying these things to this person and that person is believing those things and now responding to those words, which is causing the conflict.

Speaker 2:

So what are some signs that a couple may be growing apart, rather due to personal development differences. What are the signs? Is there anything that would be a sign?

Speaker 3:

I mean, first thing that would be a sign is where it's all about others and no longer about the union. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

That's the first sign that you know something. Yeah, because the moment is someone else's opinion that takes precedence over what your spouse thinks. Oh, but my boss said this is how it should be done. Or someone said this Okay, how about what you say? Yeah, I've heard you, but that's not what this person said. You know something because now there's another, there's a strong influence on that person, on that person, and if care is not taken, it's just a matter of time.

Speaker 2:

Even sentences like my friend's wife is doing so-and-so, or my friend's husband is so-and-so, and you know why? Can't you be like that? Those kind of things also.

Speaker 3:

Yes, they do those kind of things yes, but we're humans

Speaker 3:

okay, there's nothing there's nothing desiring or, look, wishing your spouse to be as good but I think it depends on the way you present the way you present it and how you make them feel, because every time it's like oh, this person, oh, wow, oh wow, and then you can wow, wow, wow. But the next thing you're saying if it now comes to oh, but this person has done this, why can't I welcome to you? Well, this person has done, then you're now making comparisons like for like comparisons. You're beginning to demean the other person.

Speaker 3:

And that's where the issues begin to stand. Of course, at that point, things are already taking root. If you're not careful, the fruit they will bring out is not what you wanted.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but how then do couples navigate a situation where a partner's growth is now leading to life-changing decisions? For instance, maybe the partner has got a job now, he's been promoted and he's got a job in another part of the world, whereas, maybe okay, let's say, the wife has got a job in another part of the world, whereas the maybe okay, let's say, the wife has got a job in another part of the world and she has to travel to that part of the world and the husband is working elsewhere and he loves his job and he doesn't want to move. But because of the children, they might just decide okay, maybe for the sake of the of the children, because they're young, maybe we should just up and go. How do you navigate such situations? How do you deal with such situations? Because sometimes that can lead to resentment down the line.

Speaker 2:

I've had to leave my job that I was enjoying because you got this job. Okay, it's paying more, there are more whatever with it, more perks with it. So we're packing and going, but I would have loved to stay where I was. Nothing was wrong with my job and I was enjoying it. So how do you, how do they navigate that kind of situation?

Speaker 3:

One it's. I mean that kind of situation. You need a lot of conversations. Yeah. Before, during, during and when the decision is taken a lot of conversation because you need to dot a lot of I's and cross a lot of T's. If one person is, if one person who is moving can walk remotely, then it's not going to affect them so much because it's just about location. But if the person who is moving has to start, all over again.

Speaker 3:

That's when you know we were having a conversation once when I was saying at that point it tends now to be transactional If I was earning £2,000, for example, and I have to leave my job of £2,000 a month and go with the family, now you've got a job that pays very, very well, can cover all the costs comfortably, but that does not include my £2,000, which gives me financial freedom to do things. Where does that fit in?

Speaker 3:

Okay, to do things yeah, where does that fit in? Okay, now let's assume it takes another four to six months before I find something and I may not find something at that level that I had.

Speaker 3:

What happens we would have in the conversations before we would have said hang on, my two thousand pounds is not coming in anymore, so where, who covers this? And the party that is getting the bigger job, who's get to, can afford it now has to see it as, especially when it's a role reversal oh, but I'm the one paying all the bills. No, you asked for a sacrifice.

Speaker 2:

I made a sacrifice.

Speaker 3:

I made a sacrifice. Now you cannot use it against me. So it's and 90% of the time, most of the time, it always boils down to. It's always the financial strain that kicks in first. If it was the I mean, and that's where good communication would have come in. If the I mean if my £2,000 meant I could, you know, take a short break every three months with no stress on anybody. Now that I'm moving, we need to discuss does that three-month break come?

Speaker 2:

How am I going to take my three-month breaks?

Speaker 3:

And if I tell you, you know what, that's is not necessary at this time, it's, it's just all about you know putting all the cards on the table, yeah, and the person asking so the other party to make the sacrifice doesn't see it, as I am the one doing this.

Speaker 3:

You're doing this for the family, because you've asked one person to leave what they're doing and drop everything and come with you. You've got to make the environment conducive and comfortable, and that's where the issue, because after six months, six, seven months what if you get to the new location six, seven months and the person that dropped everything hasn't found something suitable?

Speaker 2:

they become resentful.

Speaker 3:

Exactly, they become resentful they may become resentful and you might feel guilty as well and it could even be you making them resentful because of the language look, it's six months. You making them resentful because of the language or the look, it's six months. You haven't found anything. I didn't choose to come. That's the response you will get. I did not choose to come, you made me. Or rather, and that's what the person will say, you made me Rather than we agreed.

Speaker 3:

I come rather than we are greed icon so it's all about, you know, taking the layers off and discussing every detail and looking at it from a common point of view. You have to know and analyze how it is going to affect everybody. Wow.

Speaker 2:

So how can couples create shared goals?

Speaker 3:

First question is what are shared goals?

Speaker 2:

What are shared goals? Yeah, okay, goals. What are shared goals? Yeah, okay, in terms of growth, shared goals, maybe. Um, we want to buy. We want to buy a condo in five years time. Yes, if you both agree on that. We want to buy a boat yes, yes in six years time, yes, but well, it doesn't have to be such lofty goals, I'm just yeah no, no, it could be anything Any kind of If you have shared. First thing is how do you support each other? I mean create shared goals.

Speaker 3:

By talking about it.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

And by not ramming what I think you should like down your throat.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Because that's where I mean I can say we're in this together but really and truly, all I'm doing is pushing my desires, but it's for us. It's for us. It's for us? Yes, it might be for us, but who is the one? Whose toy is this?

Speaker 2:

Okay, like buying a new flashy car, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Whose toy is it? Oh, this would be good for us. Now you drive. You are the one that loves to take the car for a spin, so this is for your ego. Okay, not for us, not for us.

Speaker 2:

So to create shared goals. Then what do they do?

Speaker 3:

You have to sit down and you have to break it down. Yeah, who is this benefiting? One person Is this benefiting? One person.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean when it comes to shared sometimes some things might benefit one person more than the other person, but as long as everything is not done from me me myself and I and just making the other, ramming it down the other person's throat and making them feel guilty if they don't accept what you're proposing. So to have shared goals, I mean if something like let's buy a house by the beach If I don't like the beach, if I'm not a fan of the sea, saying is good for us good for your mental well-being.

Speaker 3:

Nice I have to be convinced that it's good for me. So the only way to probably convince me it's good for me is take a holiday by the beach, see how you feel, yeah, and then I can say you know, it makes sense, because sometimes we're not even aware that this might be beneficial. So it's not about forcing one person to do something. It's by making them realize what benefit it is for them once they buy into it.

Speaker 3:

But you have to make your partner buy into whatever you're doing something like you and I discuss it once in a while buying a holiday home okay or buying a house in america or spain, or italy all over the world and sometimes I say, what's the point?

Speaker 3:

if I want a luxury holiday, I go to a place where people can actually get a good resort, have fun. It's an investment. When you're not there, you lease it out and I say, yes, but the cost of losing, cost of maintenance, cost of this, cost of that, have you factored that in so we both can have the same very strong views as to why something should or should not, but until there is a buy-in, it doesn't work until there is a buy-in, it doesn't work.

Speaker 2:

Until there is a compromise, exactly, it's not a compromise, an agreement.

Speaker 3:

I have to believe in what you want to do you have to believe in what.

Speaker 2:

I want to do exactly vice versa so how can couples balance the need for personal space and growth while nurturing their relationship? Because this is something that couples don't factor in sometimes the need for personal space. You know to do your own thing, you know, even though you're in a relationship, you're one, you're a unit, but there is a need for that personal space. So how do couples balance that need for personal space, as well as their own growth, while nurturing the?

Speaker 3:

relationship. Let's break it down. What do you mean by personal space? Because I can think about personal space in different areas.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I'm not talking about separate rooms, no, no, okay, see.

Speaker 3:

I don't subscribe to that. That's exactly.

Speaker 2:

But being allowed to take time out to just be you. Yeah, you know, because some couples believe we have to do everything together, we have to eat at the same time. We have I know a couple that used to do that eat at the same time, eat from the same plate, bath at the same time. That worked for them, you know, but it doesn't have to be that way for everybody.

Speaker 3:

That's not a recipe for everyone, that's not a to work having. By that, maybe once in, god knows, because at quarter to quarter to five I'm in the bathroom. You're not ready to get up, so that's not gonna. So there there are things that are. They're not, um, how do I say they're not? How do I say this? They're not set in stone what works for one does not necessarily work for another. You have to find what works for you. Now the issue of personal space. I do not see except one party feels threatened. Okay.

Speaker 3:

I don't see any reason why one party should be weary of the other person. It's where trust is. Let me use the word. It's been discounted. That's where you think I'm going away this weekend. Where, oh this place? Why? Why are you going away? Why are you going away alone? Are you sure you're going alone? Something? Must have led to, are you?

Speaker 3:

going away alone. Are you sure you're going alone? Something must have led to, and may not even be, in ours. You may have heard, oh, when those boys say they're going somewhere, do you know who and what? Blah, blah. So you begin to be suspicious why this, why that? So if trust is not an issue, personal space should not be a problem. If I'm going somewhere and I'm saying oh, I've gone out with X, y, z, it's only when you really don't trust me. I think, why have I? Why is she the one you went out with? So a friend is visiting or I'm taking her to lunch.

Speaker 3:

Oh that's fine, good, that's nice of you, but remember, you're here to take me out for lunch. It could be a joke. It could be a joke, but it could be something serious. And I'm like, okay, I remember that, don't worry, but it's personal space should not be. I think I sent you a clip, a video clip, on WhatsApp during the week where a man was jailed in. Was it China? Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3:

He suspected his wife was having an affair. He planted CCTV cameras, caught his wife. They went to court and the judge jailed him for violating her privacy in his home, in their home. In their home and I'm like wow, is that actually privacy?

Speaker 2:

I mean that's legal that's beside the thing, that's outside of what we're discussing.

Speaker 3:

The issue is the guy only planted the cameras because he felt there was a need to do that.

Speaker 3:

The judge classified it as violating privacy. It's like the issue of phones. Some people, even if their phones you know, nobody would touch some men's phones in their home. Nobody knows the password on some people's phones. Some people feel it's my phone. I have a right to do what I want with it. That's true. But if I don't have anything to hide and I don't want to create suspicions in my spouse's mind, I don't have to take every phone call away. I don't have to have, you know, my phone rings. No one can pick it because they don't have access. You know that's all the issue of personal space. Should I don't have access? You know that's all the issue of personal space. Should I don't? I don't see it as some. Some can abuse it. That's the thing.

Speaker 3:

Because, like we were talking about the issue of privacy, where do you draw the line? Where do you what is private, what is not private, Everything that is yours is, even if I want to use it, courtesy demands. I ask. And that's where I think some people just think it's my right, yes, it's your right, but it's his property. You need to ask him.

Speaker 3:

If you don't ask him, your. It's like you trying to bully, Okay. Bully your way yeah bully, your just force your way. No, I have to. Why. Why do you have to? Is it the same? Does it if? If you flip the coin, does it work the same way? And in response, that's what I'm saying no, well. And in response, that's what I'm saying, no, well. So if it's good for the goose, it has to be good for the gander oh, wow again.

Speaker 2:

We're coming to the end of this so quickly. I don't know where the time goes, but before we finish there was one question that I wanted to ask as well. So how can couples support each other's personal development? What are the? What tips can you give for couples to help support one another in their personal development?

Speaker 3:

you have to to support your partner's personal development. You need to be their, their, cheerleader.

Speaker 3:

You need to encourage them. You need to make them see the values, the good in themselves, because when you bring out the best in them, make them see they are that good. If I'm not my partners, if I'm not your first cheerleader, who should be? And that's where it stems from. If you want to do something, I may question why you want to do it, because I want to have an understanding of the thoughts behind it. I don't have to completely agree with it, but I have to support you. If I think there are pitfalls and there might be pitfalls in the world best I can do is remind you have you considered A, b, c? And if you say yes, say okay, fine, then I should take it for your word and then give you as B C. And if you say yes, say okay, fine, then I should take you for your word and then give you as much support as I can.

Speaker 3:

That does not necessarily mean everything is, but you have to. You don't shut down what interests your spouse may have, because you're not in their head. There's a reason why they're interested To you. It may be mundane, but if it's important to them, then it's important to them. End of story. Provided you can't see anything that will be inimical to their health and their growth and the growth of the family.

Speaker 2:

What else? What else can you do to support?

Speaker 3:

I think once you've encouraged and you're cheering them on, the rest of the race is theirs to run. So just being there for them, just being there for them, so just being there for them listening, encourage, support, even research if it's necessary if they're doing something and they're overwhelmed you can research and help them get information, make it available that's part of your support just do everything you can to enable them to succeed, as much as they can. It available, that's part of your support.

Speaker 2:

Just do everything you can to enable them to succeed as much as they can, and it shouldn't be a competition.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. That's the thing. It's not a competition. Marriage of spouses are not to be competing with one another. You are there as a team. It's a symbiotic not parasitic relationship. Beneficial to both parties.

Speaker 2:

I read something that says that marriage and personal growth is the art of growing together, not apart. The art of growing together, not apart.

Speaker 3:

And the pace. The pace can be different for everybody. Yeah. The pace can be different for even the spouses, as long as, like that, saying if I can't fly. I can run. If I can't run, I can walk. If I can't walk, I can crawl.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

But by no means keep moving. That's what is important. Keep moving, but we should be weary of motion without movement, motion without movement.

Speaker 2:

Wow, thank you so, so much. And yeah, we've come to the end of another podcast and before we go, I always like to end the podcast on a note of hope. So what would you say to couples that are dealing with or struggling with each other's growth or not knowing how to handle or navigate the situation that they're in? You know where they're both struggling to figure out where they are, what to do next and stuff like that. How do you encourage them?

Speaker 3:

If it's about finding the next thing they want to do they should search within themselves. There will always be something around, there will always be a pointer and, like we said, as long as you're not competing with one another. One other thing couples should be weary of and every human being is pride. That I'm doing better than one person today is not the end of the road. We're still in motion. We don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker 3:

Still evolving. Exactly Anything can change. So, and that's once, we value one another and respect one another and support one another and believe that this relationship is a team. It's like a relay race. I'm handling the button to the next person. I'm giving this to the next person. It's not. Oh, I ran 9.5 and you did 10, point whatever. Where did we get to? It's about we, not me.

Speaker 2:

It's about we, we not, me, not I.

Speaker 3:

Not.

Speaker 2:

I, we, okay. Thank you so so much, fella. Thank you for always accepting the invitation to join us on the podcast and we're really grateful, so hopefully we'll see you again sometime soon. Thank you so so much. And, yeah, thank you all for listening and if you've enjoyed today's podcast, please help us spread the word about navigating the chapters of challenge. Please share the link of the podcast to your friends and family and please get in touch with us If you have any questions. You want to just leave a comment, just send us some love. Please get in touch, put a comment on the. Wherever you're listening to the podcast, there's a link where you can put your comments. And if you would like to support us as well, please support the show. We'll be very grateful. And until the next episode, thank you so so much for listening to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Telly and we'll see you again sometime soon. Take care and God bless, thank you.