Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Beyond Words Part 2: Navigating Conflict in Marriage

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Join us for Part 2 of our  transformative conversation with Fela  Adewusi as we tackle the complexities of conflict resolution in marriage. In this candid dialogue, Fela offers profound insights into the common sources of conflict that couples encounter and provides actionable strategies for effectively resolving them.

We delve into the crucial role of communication in mitigating conflicts and maintaining harmony in marriage. Fela shares expert advice on fostering constructive communication patterns, navigating differences with empathy, and fostering mutual understanding.

Whether you're navigating minor disagreements or facing significant challenges in your marriage, this episode provides invaluable guidance on how to navigate conflicts with grace and resilience. Subscribe now to gain essential tools for fostering a stronger, more resilient relationship with your spouse. 🌟🎙️ #ConflictResolution #MarriageChallenges #HealthyRelationships 🌈











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UNKNOWN:

So,

SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. This is part two of Communication Challenges in Marriage. If you've not listened to part one, please go and listen to part one and join us again on this one, part two. Yeah, so we were talking with Fela Adeusi about communication challenges in marriage and we talked about how communication is one of the biggest communication issues, one of the biggest reasons for Hello again and thanks

SPEAKER_01:

for having me to this podcast. Part two of communication issues in

SPEAKER_00:

marriage. So like I was saying, the survey that I was talking about, the Your Tangle survey said 65% of marriages break down because of communication issues. And so we're going to continue from where we stopped last time. And this time we're going to talk about conflict, conflict in marriage. And I just wanted to read the definition of conflict. Conflict is defined as a clash between individuals arising out of a difference in thought process, attitudes, understanding, interests, requirements, and even sometimes perception. So what do you want to say about conflict in marriage? What's your understanding of conflict and how to address conflict in a marriage setting?

SPEAKER_01:

Like that definition has put it, it puts... so many things in there I want to zero in on an aspect which is which bothers on the perception and because that perception again it would for me would tilt it towards like we mentioned during the in part one both parties now trying to win a position. Maybe taking stock of what they've won and what they've lost. So when conflict arises, even when I know that I'm actually not in the right here, does my pride allow me to admit my error? That's the main thing. So for me, when you look deep down, When people have conflict, yeah, you might talk about perception and this, but for me, I would always look at it from the perspective of pride. Okay. Because it's the pride in that person that has beclouded them from admitting their error. Okay. Because it's the pride that is, because of their ego, their pride, it's not going to allow them to admit they've done something wrong.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So once you take a position that I'm not going to say sorry, the argument and the other party knows, but this is unfair. So, I mean, like he says, the two of you now are at cross purposes. Yeah. Because you have done something that is clearly and evidently wrong. Yeah. But you're refusing to admit your error.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But this is the issue then because it says something about perception. So, you might be perceiving that I've done something wrong. I don't perceive it as I've done something wrong. So this is where the conflict is coming in. So how, how does, how do they resolve this kind of situation?

SPEAKER_01:

The way to resolve it is to explain. Okay. Okay. If, if say, let's say you've done, you've said something and I've taken offense. Yeah. And I'm not happy with you about it. Yeah. I should give you an opportunity to, because if I challenge you and say, look, you are rude.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And you say to me, no, I wasn't rude.

SPEAKER_00:

I was

SPEAKER_01:

just being factual.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. You're being factual. Did you know the full or the whole story? Okay. Did you know what led to ABC?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because many times we don't have the whole picture.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then we make assumptions and we... conclude wrongly. Now, when you now have the full picture of what happened,

SPEAKER_00:

are

SPEAKER_01:

you willing to say, no, I goofed. I should have allowed you to explain before jumping to this conclusion. But it's a refusal of someone wanting to accept their error. That's where conflict always arises. Someone is in the wrong, but they're refusing to accept their error because now they're justifying why they've done what they did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But even in a conflict, it's not always just one person's fault, really. Sometimes it could be both parties are both wrong. That's

SPEAKER_01:

true. But until both parties... See, I always find that, especially if we're talking about relationships, when the party who often... does not want to back down sometimes knows when they do and i could be very very drunk here when they do is like they're opening a can of worms

SPEAKER_00:

okay

SPEAKER_01:

so they will have to continue to maintain

SPEAKER_00:

their position

SPEAKER_01:

okay because giving because some people just feel if i if i let this go

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

what next okay what next

SPEAKER_00:

okay what next okay and this boils down to what you were saying in um part one that if you are trying to is it um what are you trying to shield because if you see yourself as a unit then there's nothing to be there's nothing to kind of Hold on to our shield. You should be free to express yourselves with yourselves. Communicate. But is conflict ever a good thing? Because sometimes some people run away from addressing anything. They like to just, you know what, okay, I don't want trouble. I don't want stress in my life. I'm just going to let it go. Is that ever a good thing? No.

SPEAKER_01:

It's never a good thing. Okay. It will always come back to. So the thing, what I've noticed, my observation is, and there's a reason where within the workplace, you have conflict management.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Everyone comes from different backgrounds. We have different experiences, different exposures. Yeah. You might say something or do something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

that's going to trigger a memory in me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's going to elicit a reaction which you're not expecting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Which you couldn't even foresee.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. But when you come to understand where I'm coming from, because to you, what did I say?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But that's when you need to find out, hey, you know what? Can we talk?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, pull yourselves aside and say, look, What did I say wrong in this instance? Someone asking that question is ready to make amends and understand what went wrong. And the moment you say, look, you said this and this and this, it's not so much of what you said, it's what this triggered. And that's what you got this reaction. Oh, I'm sorry, I never knew you had this kind of experience before. I will be careful. or conscious when I'm dealing with this issue around you. That's all it takes. Conflict management, there will always be conflict. I mean, like they say, the tongue and the teeth. cannot get rid of one another. And yet, the teeth will always bite the tongue. You won't say you're going to cut it because no.

SPEAKER_00:

It doesn't always, but sometimes will bite.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you will. At some point, you will bite your tongue at some point. But you have to live together. Life is about a balance. I don't like to use the word compromises. It's about balance. How do you say it? Maybe it's about compromises, but you're letting some things go in order to have some things. You're doing it from a strategic

SPEAKER_00:

point

SPEAKER_01:

of view? No, no, no. It's perspective of love. That's the thing with relationships. Everything should emanate from the point of love. Christ died for us. What did we do? It's because he loved us. And he gave. So when we have conflicts, it's about each person letting... Because if you don't understand where the other party is coming from, you're never going to be able to address their issues or their questions or what they're dealing with. And You cannot always hold your position. If you're not willing to learn about others, you're not ready to move forward. And that's what is always the problem with conflict. It's just one person insisting their position most often. And I

SPEAKER_00:

think also background has a lot to do with it because people come from different backgrounds and so their expectations are different. I was listening to a man of God talking about when he married his wife and she came from a background where her parents used to fight all the time. And he came from a background where he had never seen that kind of thing before. And so every little thing, she will break plates, she will break stuff. off and she said to him one day you like peace too much and he found it so difficult to understand that perspective because she was from a completely different background so when you have two people who are married and they're from totally different backgrounds how do they manage to deal with their different understandings and different ways of um handling issues when they arise?

SPEAKER_01:

The truth is this. There are no two people that are married that are from the same background. Their backgrounds can be similar, but they're not the same. That's why you have I think what sociology calls social stratas. You've got everybody belongs in a particular social class. I don't want to use the word class, but kind of social strata.

SPEAKER_00:

Now,

SPEAKER_01:

within that, of course, there are the upper limits and the lower limits. If you commit what is called class suicide, the challenges you're likely to face are more than someone who is within their social strata. And that's the reality. Because Say, for example, the example you gave, someone who's from a background where the parents fight all the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And someone who's from a background where the parents are peaceful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

For me, that's the kind of information you should pick up while you're dating.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

If you found that information when you are married... Yeah. you have a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Because at this point...

SPEAKER_00:

There's no going back.

SPEAKER_01:

There's no going back. At this point, how do you now deal... If you marry a spouse, whether male or female, whose parents fight, and it's always physical, it's nothing... I mean, fights, brain abuses, the kind of language they're going to use... that spouse is going to bring it. Because, and that's why I said, everybody, nobody's from the same. Everyone comes into a relationship with their baggage. Now, it's all now dependent on how heavy the baggage is. What are the things you're dealing with? So, you will, everybody's going to come into the relationship with a motive. But, you both need to know what your motive is.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

When you say motive, what do you mean? What I mean by that is, if you remember, very early, this was even before we got married, I said that when we get married,

SPEAKER_00:

if

SPEAKER_01:

this relationship was going to break, I would do everything to make sure I'm not in the wrong place. And I remember when I said that, you were like, hmm. I remember I said that first. Yeah. And you echoed it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And by the grace of God, that has been a guiding principle. Principle. For the relationship. Not that there have not been slips and trips and challenges along the way. Yeah. But when both of, that's what I mean by motive. Okay. If you're coming with The intention, look, if it breaks, let it break. How much effort are you going to put into it? If you call me with intention, I will do my best to make sure this does not break. That does not mean you're just going to accept everything and anything. It just means that anything from my side, because I can only take care of what is in my court. It's like a tennis player. You've got no You can send a very difficult shot to your opponent, but you can only take care of the ball when it's on your own side. And a lot of people, you find that a lot of people are trying to control what is on the other side, whereas they have not, the issues they have, they have not even fully dealt with it or even understood

SPEAKER_00:

What their own issues are. What their own

SPEAKER_01:

issues

SPEAKER_00:

are. Okay. So, conflict is not always a bad thing. Conflict

SPEAKER_01:

is not. Conflict that is managed is good. Every conflict, because you find that if it's a healthy conflict, what results from it is beneficial to both.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's a healthy conflict that tears apart. Healthy conflict makes unions grow.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's your definition of healthy conflict? How would I know that this conflict is healthy and that one is not?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the way I would put it is, one, it's going to be the approach. Two, am I looking for a resolution or am I looking for a fight?

SPEAKER_00:

Or am I looking

SPEAKER_01:

to win? Exactly. Am I looking for a resolution or am I just, like you said, am I looking to win at any cost? Yeah. Okay. So that's the thing. There's healthy conflict. Every relationship has conflict because you will not always agree on everything. Yeah. But that does not mean... you're at cross-purposes. I believe strongly that in a marriage, neither party should lose their identity or their personality. Rather, the relationship should make each person's personality and strong point to be enhanced and developed and thrive. Two people becoming one does not mean one person has to completely disappear. Because if one person disappears, it means there's only one person that is sane. And that's the problem a lot of people have. Like saying things like, oh, you have to be the one chasing or pushing my vision. And then when I realize my vision, what happens?

SPEAKER_00:

When I realize your

SPEAKER_01:

vision, what happens to me? So there's nothing wrong in both parties having their visions going in the same direction and both of them achieving it. So I don't believe a man or a woman should lose their individuality in their relationship. Rather, their relationship should enhanced and bring the

SPEAKER_00:

best out of both of them. But do you think there are ever any issues that cannot be resolved in a marriage? Or are there any areas that, like gray areas that, okay, maybe let's just let it be?

SPEAKER_01:

It all depends on, like you said, what's the ultimate goal? 90% of the time, this is my own assumption, your position, people hold on to their positions because of the amount of information available to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

When you have more information,

SPEAKER_00:

you might change your mind.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you? That's the question. Do you change, do you accept that, you know what, my position was flawed?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's where a lot of people have a hang up.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Because now they now realize, hang on, I wasn't completely right. So at that point that they realized they were not completely right, what do they do? Do they apologize? Or it doesn't even have to be an apology. They probably just say, you know what? I held this position because of the amount of information. Now that I have better information and understanding, I see how my position was wrong. But I never meant... hurt it was not intended to hurt this person it was only based on the amount of information available okay it's an apology but you you know if if someone feels you know okay i'm sorry it makes me feel i'm losing ground just admit that you didn't have all the information now that you have it you're taking a different position And let it go.

SPEAKER_00:

But there are times when you have to decide to agree to disagree.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And that's what I mean by healthy conflict. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Because I want to take us back to the Brexit or no Brexit thing. We had different views. We're not going to say who had what view here. But we both had different views and the arguments in the house then were heated. But they were healthy arguments. But we had different views and we had to agree to disagree. And I think that's healthy. So it's not going to be every situation that you're going to come to

SPEAKER_01:

agree. Myself and my son, he supports Chelsea, I support Arsenal.

SPEAKER_00:

And yourself and your son or our son?

SPEAKER_01:

Our

SPEAKER_00:

son.

SPEAKER_01:

He's a Chelsea fan. I'm an Arsenal

SPEAKER_00:

fan. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Some... I know some people that that kind of situation cannot prevail. Yeah. How can my son support and... No, no, no. He's got... He's free to support a club he wishes to support. End of story. Yeah. It doesn't change anything. But that's where some people just feel if things are... Like I said to you once, I was surprised when a colleague of mine said to me many years ago, he's Tottenham and I think the family, maybe Chelsea or something. And any time the two clubs were playing, nobody dared cross his path, especially if his club lost in the house. And I was like... You know, so there's healthy conflict and there's many unhealthy conflict. You just have to deal with situations differently. they present themselves

SPEAKER_00:

so let's go away from the football otherwise we're going to be here forever and I'm not a football person forgive me so we're going to move away from here so in my research I came across two things I came across two syndromes the walk away wife syndrome and the miserable husband syndrome or irritable male syndrome these are new things to me because I've never seen this before You might know about it, but I had never seen this before. And the walk-away wife syndrome says it's when the wife begins to... And I think it shouldn't just be a walk-away wife syndrome. It should be a walk-away spouse syndrome. That's the way I would couch it. And that person begins to detach slowly, slowly when their needs are not met. And then they just kind of like just walk away from it. When you notice that your spouse is... Detaching slowly. What should you do to correct that situation? Because they might just walk away.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. First thing is, like you said, when.

SPEAKER_00:

When. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's the responsibility of the spouse to notice something is wrong. Okay. And you need to know why would someone start to detach and not voice out their position.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Probably because they're not being heard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. We mentioned that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Probably because they're not being listened to. Probably the, or sometimes they just feel they're not in a position to, to say some things because, and again, it now boils down to the dynamics of a relationship.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because sometimes, every time someone says something Oh, I'm not, can we deal with this? Yeah. Some other part, if a spouse takes every, let me use the phrase, quote unquote, complain.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

As a criticism. Yeah. It would lead the other party to withdraw. To withdraw.

SPEAKER_00:

So then that depends on how the spouse is putting the complaint. Is it complaint or maybe issue?

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Sometimes it's how they put it across. Sometimes it's how they put it across. Again, it's how that person feels about themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, you can expand on that. Yeah, because

SPEAKER_01:

when you say a need is not being met, now it depends on how it's said. It's going to make that party feel inadequate. Okay. So, and in feeling inadequate, you're probably going to get a reaction as opposed to a response. So, if that person gets a reaction as opposed to a response, this other party might just say, you know what, I'm not talking about this

SPEAKER_00:

anymore.

SPEAKER_01:

And the withdrawing into a shell begins very slowly. Slowly. And very slowly. And that person just probably just says, you know what? There's no point. There's no point. I'll just do what is needful and life goes on. And slowly the crack will start to appear. So

SPEAKER_00:

when the spouse notices that, what should they be doing? Address

SPEAKER_01:

it. Yes, address it. You have to address. There's no point in sweeping anything under the carpet. You may not, addressing it does not necessarily mean then and then. You find a solution. But like the phrase says, or like the saying, a problem identified is half solved. The next thing you're looking for now is what is the solution that will be agreeable to both. But until you both agree that there's an issue to be talked about or dealt with, you're going to be at

SPEAKER_00:

cross-purposes. So, Just address the situation.

SPEAKER_01:

No, you have to. You have to first identify it. Yeah. Because until you identify it, you can't address it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think some of the signs of walking away is when the person begins to become maybe cold, doesn't respond like they used to respond. They just might just be quiet. Yeah, become unusually quiet, you know. And those are symptoms. And it takes a

SPEAKER_01:

spouse who knows their spouse well. Who even cares? Exactly. Now, you have to know. You have to care to know. So, if you don't really care, if your partner is just there as whatever to you, you're not even going to notice. So, the caring first, that's what is going to make you know something is amiss.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But, okay, this is a bit trivial compared to what we're talking about. But some men don't even notice when their wives make their hair, when they put on a new dress. They don't notice. And that can make the wife begin to feel like, does he care? Does he love me? You

SPEAKER_01:

just have to

SPEAKER_00:

forgive him. You have

SPEAKER_01:

forgiven. You see, I mean, even though it sounds trivial, what is trivial to me might be important to the other person and all it takes is I need to know I may not always get it right I may not get it right many times but I need to know this is important to this person so it's the I care enough to want to know that's what it takes so it just can be if it bothers that person

SPEAKER_00:

then

SPEAKER_01:

you should pay a little attention. Attention, yes. You may not, and all it needs is you letting that person know, look, I'm not from this background. It is not, I'm not doing this to hurt you. I'm learning. And I will try. But don't, it doesn't mean tomorrow. I won't get it wrong again. But just

SPEAKER_00:

forgive me. What you just said reminds me of something. When we first got married and Because I'm from a background where my parents used to kiss one another at the door and all of that. And you're not from that background. And so when we first got married, I was like, why doesn't he do all these things? I would do it and he'd be like, okay, yeah, yeah. But he never did it in return. And some days I'll be like, I'm the only one. And then other days I'd be like, okay, I'll try again, I'll try again. And then sometimes you respond, sometimes you wouldn't. And I used to get so frustrated. But it took me a while to realize, okay, we're from different backgrounds. And I remember I used to say to me, just give me time. I'm learning. I'm learning. I'll get there with time. Well, to God be the glory. We're still working on it. Yeah, we're a work in progress. Yeah, we're all a work in progress. Everyone is a work in progress. Yeah, we're all a work in progress. Okay, so we've dealt with the walk-away wife syndrome just a little bit. We haven't really dealt with it. it in detail but just like this show is just a few minutes so we can't never deal with it all in one show it's something that we'll continue to talk about from time to time if we have the opportunity so I wanted to move on to the miserable husband syndrome or irritable man syndrome and now this is quite interesting because I didn't know about this apparently this is like male menopause and this is when there's lower test I can never pronounce this word. Testosterone. Testosterone levels. Okay. So when the testosterone levels are low and the man is having trouble sleeping, reduced energy, there's hormonal change, erectile dysfunction, moodiness, and all of that. And all of these things affect communication. So if you're a wife and you're noticing these kind of things, what should you be doing? If you didn't know about irritable... Irritable husband syndrome. And you now realize that your husband is going through all of these things. What should you be doing? What's your advice to... Supportive.

SPEAKER_01:

Understanding.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And give him as much help if there is any. Yeah. And if he needs help encouraging him to get the help that is required. For instance, some of those things could be health-related. Some could be health-related. Others may be that contributory. But if you deal with the health-related one, it probably would. Like, for instance, it's been known that when you exercise, your mood changes.

SPEAKER_00:

Improves. Improves. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So if you have a spouse who doesn't exercise, doesn't take walks, doesn't have to necessarily play sports, or goes out once in a while, not drive all the time, not stuck, not walking from home behind his PC all the time, takes breaks, you know, Exercise is known to help with mood. So that's one area. The other area is if it's health related, get advice.

SPEAKER_00:

Encourage him to get advice. But you men don't like going... to the doctors. You don't like getting... You kind of like to... Macho. Be macho. That's the word, macho. Or man

SPEAKER_01:

up. It's encouraging. You're not compelling. There's a difference between pushing him and not giving him peace until he does something. It's different from nudging him and encouraging him in his own way.

SPEAKER_00:

interest to seek help to seek help

SPEAKER_01:

for his mood

SPEAKER_00:

yeah because these are the things that because okay so you can imagine the man is going through irritable husband syndrome the woman is going through menopause the two of them in the same house how do they how do they deal with that how do they manage that because then it must be

SPEAKER_01:

tough it will be tough it will be challenging I mean like we always say both of them have to know that this is what is going on. So everything starts from the

SPEAKER_00:

knowing

SPEAKER_01:

and acknowledging. Because when you know there's a challenge, it's not going to be a force in your mind. It's not going to be a mental block for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

You know this is what is happening.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You can respond to it accordingly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's when you don't know, you know, that's where the problem, because things you don't know will always throw you off.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's just seeking help, understanding. I mean, a woman going through menopause herself has a lot of

SPEAKER_00:

challenges. Yeah, mood changes and all of that. Mood changes.

SPEAKER_01:

The man has to understand that his wife is going through menopause and support her as much as possible.

SPEAKER_00:

Because that could all affect communication between them. Because the man probably is thinking, what is all this? What's wrong with her? What's wrong with her? She can't even see me. She can't

SPEAKER_01:

even understand I'm going through blood. The woman is like... Look,

SPEAKER_00:

I'm also going through things. I'm hot one minute, cold the next. you know so I think it's at the end of the day it's all about like we said compassion being compassionate understanding what's going on with each other and taking the time to actually care enough to want to then help one another and then this would improve the communication because if I notice that oh his mood is changing I need to be able to say oh what's going on you know

SPEAKER_01:

and don't always just assume that oh He's done something wrong, that's why his mood has changed. Or she's done something wrong. Or maybe you had an argument and you noticed something, good for her, that's her problem. You need to, that's where the caring comes in. And there's no self-gratification that each party is seeking. You're looking after one

SPEAKER_00:

another. When I was reading about this miserable husband syndrome, one of the things they talked about was Get help. Therapy. Yeah. Why don't men like going for therapy? Well, let me not say men in general. Don't let me not make it too generalistic. Most men, a lot of men, from my understanding or from my point of view, don't seem to like to go for therapy. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Because they believe they can deal

SPEAKER_00:

with

SPEAKER_01:

it.

SPEAKER_00:

Why? Why do they believe they can deal with every problem by themselves? And this is a problem because they won't talk to their wives. Some men won't talk to their wives about what's going on with them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's

SPEAKER_00:

just a man thing.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, get help.

SPEAKER_00:

That doesn't help us saying it's just a man thing. What should they

SPEAKER_01:

do? What he should do is get help.

SPEAKER_00:

But why don't they like to get help? That's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01:

Look, it's getting help puts the man in a corner. He feels boxed in.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

It feels helpless.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And men don't like to feel helpless.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Okay. They don't like to feel helpless. In fact, that's why many times until it's so evident before many men will say, okay, you know, I need to talk to someone about this or I need to talk to my wife or, you know. So it's, they feel by, that's why some men don't cry. Yeah. Because they feel crying makes them What's the phrase? Not less of a man, but you're not man enough when you cry.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And in some cultures, men don't cry unless you will not cry in public.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. and I think we need to address that men need to get therapy we all need to get therapy if we need it if there's a need for it just go and get therapy talk to somebody you know talk to somebody about your situation and if there are communication issues in a marriage I think couples should also go for I mean if they've tried to resolve it amongst themselves I think couples should also seek professional help talk to somebody a counsellor talk to somebody you know about their situation so with First, coming to the end of this episode as well, what tips do you have, what tips can you give concerning communication in marriage and how to have good communication in marriage? What kind of things do you think people should do from

SPEAKER_01:

your point of view? If... It's baby steps. Baby steps, okay. If you're not communicating, if you think or you know that communication is a problem, start with basic steps.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay,

SPEAKER_01:

like? Baby steps as in, how was your day? Okay. Yeah. You know, how was your day? Oh, it was this, it was that. Even if the person didn't feel like talking much, oh, it was good, it was all right, fine. Oh, I had a horrible day. Yeah. Blah, blah. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_01:

the next day, you know, how was this? It's just about, you know, being open and not being judgmental. Because again, many times you find that when you say poor communication, it never was like that. When they were dating.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

When they were dating, when they probably first got married, something... In most cases. In most cases, something happened. Yeah. Now, when I say something happened, it doesn't mean that there was a problem. It could have been a shift. Yeah. Something happened.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That that communication started breaking down.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So you need

SPEAKER_01:

to go back to... You need to peel... It's like an onion.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Go

SPEAKER_01:

to the... Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. in another five or six years, you might evolve. One person might evolve. The other one might still be where they were when you first started and might catch up with you. Or you might both evolve at the same time. So there's that changing scenarios in marriage. And all of these things can have an effect on the communication. For instance, if you were both... walking in the office and high flyers and you come back and you talked about your day blah blah blah blah and then maybe one person is no longer in that kind of setting and then there's not much to now talk about you know so it might bring a bit of a strain but then you can walk those things you can work on them

SPEAKER_01:

and again it depends on why that person for instance if the family decides they're not having children and one person now says okay you know what I'll take a few years off. Now, this person has put a hold on their career. The other party that is still moving has to be

SPEAKER_00:

conscious

SPEAKER_01:

of that and be... be encouraging, making that person realize, look, this is not the place you're going to be forever. It's just for a period. Yes, unless you choose to stay. While you're doing this, you could even do courses and whatever, keep yourself abreast so that when you're ready to go back to work, you know, it's all about being, it's awareness of what's going on and the reasons why one person has dropped and one person is moving. So it's, and it stems from both parties being interested and caring about

SPEAKER_00:

one another. About one another, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Not just one person wanting to be, you know, I is about me. Because that's what breeds resentment. And once resentment starts, the person has to start to

SPEAKER_00:

withdraw. And I think also it's about being sensitive. Sensitive to one another and to what is going on around you and in the marriage and all that. Okay. Any last words? Any word of hope? We always like to end this on a word of hope. So any word of hope for people out there?

SPEAKER_01:

There is hope for every relationship for every marriage. One, we all trust in God to help us. Nobody knows how to do it. We all have to be sincere with ourselves. Open with our spouses. Be ready to forgive and move on. Be ready to be vulnerable with one another. And if you permit me to say it, It's good when it works. But if you're in a relationship that you know is abusive and is not working and you've done everything you can to seek help and you may need to get out of it because it's only when you're seen and a life that things can work

SPEAKER_00:

for you. So if you're in an abusive relationship, seek help. Don't stay in it and suffer in it. Seek help. And do what's best for you. Okay. Thank you so much for being with us. Part 1 and Part 2 has been very insightful, very helpful. So thank you for being on the show once again. We hope to have you again some other time. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Wow. Thank you all for listening to us again. Yeah, been still nasally, battling with a cold, but thank you all for listening, spending time with us on Navigating the Chapters of Challenge. And I hope that this has been useful for somebody out there. And until we come your way again sometime soon, take care. God bless. Bye-bye.