Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele

Breaking the Silence: Exploring Mental Health Matters with Dr. T Ajayi

• Season 1 • Episode 8

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Join us for a vital conversation with Dr. T Ajayi as we delve into the complex realm of mental health. Dr. Ajayi shares expert insights on recognizing signs of mental health issues, promoting mental well-being, and navigating the intersection of mental health and faith, particularly within the church community.

We explore strategies for identifying mental health concerns in oneself and others, and discuss practical approaches to fostering mental well-being in everyday life. Additionally, we delve into the unique challenges faced by men in addressing their mental health, offering valuable perspectives on breaking the stigma and seeking support.

Whether you're seeking to better understand mental health issues, promote well-being in your community, or support loved ones in their mental health journey, this episode provides invaluable guidance and understanding. Listen now to gain insights into navigating mental health with compassion and knowledge.  #MentalHealthAwareness #WellBeingTalks #ChurchResponseToMentalHealth 🌈

You can contact DR T. Ajayi on tripartcare@gmail.com . You can also watch him on  YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whDwLbKtnu4&t=185s

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SPEAKER_02:

you

SPEAKER_01:

Hello and welcome to Navigating the Chapters of Challenge with Tele. Today I've got Dr. Taiwo Ajayi with us and we're going to be talking about mental health, a topic that we don't talk about often. But I'm going to get Dr. Taiwo to introduce himself first and then we'll take it from there. Dr. Taiwo, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself, please.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me on the program. So I'm Dr. T. Ayodele, ITI, and I'm a consultant psychiatrist working in the NHS. And I'm also a fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. Okay, that sounds interesting

SPEAKER_01:

and I just wanted us to start by I like that question because it's really the crux of the

SPEAKER_00:

matter. because the reality, as you say, is that everybody talks about mental health these days, and mental health means several things to several people. But a good way to look at it is to have what the WHO, the World Health Organization, says about mental health, and try and break that down in a way that is relatable to the man on the street who is living in the 21st century. So according to the World Health Organization, they say that mental health is a state of well-being. So that's one thing, that mental health is part of our global health as individuals. So it's a state of well-being in which an individual is able to fulfill their potentials. So that's one of the indices that when we have good mental health, we're able to fulfill our potential. We're able to deal with the stressors of life. life does happen all sorts of things happen

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

and part of our mentors is to deal with that and to be able to work productively and to then also be able to contribute to community okay those are the key key things to look at when you are looking at mental

SPEAKER_01:

health okay so to be able to fulfill your potential really

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah deal with stress deal with stresses of life and also be able to contribute to community.

SPEAKER_01:

But then why is there a stigma associated with mental health? Because once you mention mental health, people are like,

SPEAKER_00:

oh, what's that? Why is there that stigma? Very brilliant question. Because the reality is that all of the things I've just described now are positive things. And the way it's out of the fact that People are also knowledgeable about mental. We are very aware of our physical health. If, for instance, somebody says that they've had a fracture, we know that they've broken their bone. If somebody says that they've had a heart attack, we know that their heart, the blood vessels in their heart has had a problem. If somebody says they've had a stroke, we know it's something to do with their brains. But when people say they have a mental problem like depression or anxiety or even psychosis, People begin to wonder, where is that? We can't see it. Really, that's part of the problems that mental health is not necessarily a bad thing. There's good mental health and there's poor mental

SPEAKER_02:

health.

SPEAKER_00:

So the stigma addressing your question actually comes from a lot of ignorance and a lot of myth that people have about mental health and mental well-being. We already have a preconceived idea, a preconceived notion that sadly has been festered in the past by bad press. But thankfully, that's changing now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's changing. Okay. But then in the church, we don't talk about mental health. The church kind of hides under, I don't know if it's fear or I don't know exactly what it could be, but we just don't talk about it. Why? Why don't we talk about it?

SPEAKER_00:

i i defy a bit on that opinion okay because i don't hear about it in church yeah that's interesting i'll tell you why the reason i'll tell you why it's because i'm looking at the longitudinal view

SPEAKER_01:

okay

SPEAKER_00:

so the first time i ever spoke to the church community ever about mental health was 21 22 years ago

SPEAKER_01:

wow okay

SPEAKER_00:

and over the time i've been speaking engaging with churches, engaging with Christian organizations, charities. And what I've seen is that COVID lockdown was a tipping point. Up until then, church leaders, pastors, deacons, board of elders were not so embracing. There were a few outliers who were really embracing, who were thinking about mental health and mental well-being. However, when COVID hit and it's almost like it was a wake-up call

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

and ever since then i think things are changing it's still it's still not common practice more and more i'm getting to see that i think we are beginning to see in church that mental health is part of our well-being just like we have physical well-being we have spiritual well-being we also have emotional well-being so things We are not where we need to be, but we are way, way ahead of where we were 22 years ago when I got involved.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. But, okay, when you say it's changing, in what ways is it changing in the church? Give me practical examples because I personally have not seen.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you for asking that because, so, for instance, the reality is that there is hardly any week the last three years, there's hardly any week or two weeks in a row that I either don't speak to a church leader or stick to or actually be on a Zoom call or physically go into a church building in between all of those to talk about mental health. So looking at my diary, I feel that things have changed compared to what it was like before. Like I said, we're not where we need to be yet. There's still a lot of work to be done. There are still people who are very traditional about our view of mental health. But I think things are changing and it's going to take time for that to really impact everyone. But I'm hopeful. I live in hope.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. We should live in hope. So when you go for those kind of meetings or when you talk to them on zoom what kind of topics come up is it things like anxiety depression stuff like that do they come up in those discussions or what exactly do you talk about

SPEAKER_00:

so we will usually talk about what is mental health okay we usually talk about the fact that really our mental health is not something to be to be alienated or to be separated from our spiritual health okay because it's because we see things in silos we think oh mental health so it's got nothing to do with your spiritual well-being yeah but that's not what scripture says i mean i'm not sure how much you want us to go to that i don't mind this is a

SPEAKER_01:

christian um program so we'd

SPEAKER_00:

love scriptures good so so we're on the same page on that yes now there are two scriptures that are usually quotes one of them is first Thessalonians 5 23 uh which talks about the and that may God preserve your holy spirit, soul, and body unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. So spirit, soul, and body unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02:

And

SPEAKER_00:

then there's John 2, I wish above all things that you prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospers. Those two scriptures refer to the fact that it refers to the soul, which is part of our total being. And if the Apostle Paul was concerned about the Thessalonians that they should be preserved, spirit, soul, and body,

SPEAKER_02:

So

SPEAKER_00:

it was concerned about our spirit, it was concerned about our body, but also concerned about our souls. And if not John 2 tells us that our souls should prosper, then Christian leaders, we don't have any excuse by shying away from addressing the needs of people's souls. And the other thing is that there's actually research, there was a research carried out by Kings to Give Hope. It's a Christian organization that looks spotlight mental health and mental well-being in the church. What they actually found is that a lot of church people, I think it was over 50% of church people, who said that they interviewed, they said that they've actually encountered mental health problems in their lives, but the thing they find challenging is that church leaders never address the issue. They never talk about it. And so they feel their total needs are not being met.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. That's true. So, what are the symptoms of a mental health situation with somebody? For instance, if somebody was having a mental health issue, how would I, as a layperson, know? What are the symptoms that one would see?

SPEAKER_00:

In terms of, like I said earlier, that when somebody has a physical problem, we look at where the physical problem is. We look

SPEAKER_02:

at the

SPEAKER_00:

heart, we look at the brain, we look at the neck, muscles, we know when somebody says they have a thyroid problem, for instance, we know that it's right in front of their neck. When we, and that's the issue with mental problems, because people are depressed, you can't see, they still, there's nothing that you can see apparently on them. Their legs still look normal, their head looks normal, everything about, so that's where the problem is. So where do we look? There are three areas to look when we are looking for mental problems. And those are where the symptoms manifest. The first thing is the area of thinking. The second is the area of feeling or emotion. And the third is the area of behavior. So those are the areas to really look out for. So there are common things that are pervasive, that sort of commonly occur when there are mental health problems. One of them is that there'll be distortion in thinking, and that includes anxiety, depression. All of them have an association with psychosis, any form of mental health problem. as mainly as some distortion in the way of thinking. For instance, depression, there'll be feelings of hopelessness, worthlessness, helplessness. It's almost like life becomes so difficult that everything, every challenge becomes on someone's table in their mind. But in terms of emotions, there will be sadness. And for instance, for depression, there's a classical way the sadness occurs. It's not the normal type of sadness that people have after they've missed that, they've not got the job interview or they've had some sadness. It's an unremitting sadness. It's just there in it and it doesn't shift. What tends to happen is people feel sad first thing in the morning and they feel, rather than when you wake up and you say, oh, thank God it's another day, they say, oh, God, it's another

SPEAKER_01:

day.

SPEAKER_00:

Because life, you just get out of bed and you think, oh, wow, have I got to face another day? And as the day wears on, that person begins to feel that maybe it's doable. Their mood leaks. But come tomorrow, again, it's the same repeated pattern. When that has persisted for two weeks, then that person has symptoms that are sufficient enough to qualify for depression. The other phase would be low energy. For no apparent reason, you are not exhausted, you just feel low on energy. And then the other hallmark, which is really key, is loss of interest and enjoyment in the pleasures of life. Life just feels like somebody is eating sand in their mouth. Life loses all its lust, loses all its meaning, loses all its... It's just like the person who is a die-hard football addict, the person who likes to listen to worship music, the person who enjoys fellowshipping with people, they just lose interest in all of those things. whose life is our grandchildren cannot just stand the noise of children when they are

SPEAKER_01:

depressed. You know this thing, depression. A lot of people say they're depressed, they're depressed. So from what you've just said now, it's only if that situation that you've described has gone on for a long period of time that we can then classify it as depression. Is that what, that's my understanding? Am I right in that?

SPEAKER_00:

yes so so before you can say that somebody is depressed their symptoms must have persisted for two weeks and they must have at least one two or three of these cause symptoms okay in terms of that type of low mood when they wake up in the morning their mood is so low but as they wear something no energy which is not associated with exhaustion of any form and then lack of interest in life the other things that would then go with it would be firstly there's what we call early morning awakening where people wake up two hours earlier than they usually wake up, and they can't go to sleep again. Not because they want to catch up on some work they need to do, and that passes all of the time. Their sleep becomes disturbed, appetite grows, sometimes people lose weight, people lose all their interest in other activities of life, people go off their marital responsibilities, they put poor concentration, poor motivation, and the thinking pattern of helplessness hopelessness and worklessness. They just feel life is bleak. People describe it as going through a dark tunnel without light at the end of the other tunnel. And the other thing to note, very importantly, is that depression is a medical condition. You know, sometimes in church I hear people say, pull up your socks, just get to write, just trust God, just get on with it and put yourself together. but but the reality is that if somebody came to church and they said oh they've just been diagnosed i mean this this happened they've just been diagnosed with diabetes we are not going to say get on with it we are going to encourage them to to look at their dietary needs to make sure that they don't eat the things that they shouldn't be eating we are going to encourage them to take their medication but whilst they are still praying I mean, I absolutely believe in the power of prayers. So I want to be balanced there. I believe that God taught his men. I believe that God transforms men. I also believe that he also sometimes uses medicine to make our lives better, medical science to make our lives

SPEAKER_01:

better. So I want to pick up on what you just said. You said, for instance, if somebody had diabetes, they would tell the person what to do and how to get on with it. So if somebody came to you and it's obviously the person is depressed. What are the things you would ask that person to do? What kind of solutions?

SPEAKER_00:

That's a very brilliant question. The first instance is what I would want to speak to them and find out a lot about their own life.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So what are that for? Because usually when people are depressed, They might have had a risk of depression, but there's something that tips them over. Okay. To housing problems, to financial problems, to work-related stress, to marital problems, domestic violence. All of those things, problems with their children, or even immigration. There are lots of people who are jackpiring at the moment. Yeah. And a lot of them are coming into circumstances that are really very hard for them to care for. And I'm already beginning to hear about people who are becoming depressed or having mental problems because what they are expected when they are leaving their home country is different. So what am I going to tell them? So in the first instance, we want to look at their lifestyle and see what are the things that we can do differently. That's one. We want to try and introduce structured activities. For instance, exercise is one of them. Exercise is very, very important. There is lots and lots of research supporting exercise. When people are depressed, they don't want to leave their beds or they don't want to leave their home. So structuring exercise into their daily life is very important, but also interaction. Because what happens with depression is that you need to do something that is against the grain. it's not natural you wouldn't naturally want to go out but when you when you go out you find out that socializing does help so that's that i would also encourage them to look at their diets because that's also very important uh in terms of we do know that um high calorie diet is not good for any mental condition okay so we are looking at a very balanced diet um yes um the cycle of the the the impact of diet on mental well-being is is a is it's really new but it's a growing area of interest. We have to actually say now that one of the ways to manage your mood is to manage your diets. Because really, at the end of the day, mental health is brain health. The health of your brain determines the health of your mood and the health of your feelings. And of course, the other thing I would also teach them, which is important, is to be conscious about the things they dwell on and that they meditate on. One of the scriptures says in Romans 12, 1-2, and that has been mentioned in Romans 1, 32, which will be transformed by the reading of our mind. And the Bible also says that whatever things the Philippians foretell, whatever things are true, whatever things are pure, whatever things are done, they are the people who report things on these things. Science is now bearing that out, that actually that is very important.

SPEAKER_01:

The things we think about, the things we dwell on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So you also said something now that I found quite interesting. You said, Carbohydrate, high carbohydrate diet is not good for

SPEAKER_00:

mental health. So basically, high calorie, high calorie, high calorie, sorry. You know, sweets, fast foods and all that. For instance, children, people who have, who have parents who have children with ADHD, they usually encourage them not to allow their children to have these sugar rushes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Because sugar rushes will be, they become more impactive. So really, um, A diet that is high in fiber, that is balanced with protein, that is high in vegetables and fruits is more favorable to us. Something like the Mediterranean diet, for instance, is more favorable to us, like a healthy mental well-being.

SPEAKER_01:

I find that really strange because a lot of people, when they're down, they go to the shop and they buy a pack of chocolate and they eat it and they're happy so

SPEAKER_00:

for how long

SPEAKER_01:

so i wouldn't have thought that that would that's i mean now it helps makes you happy doesn't it so you should improve your mood

SPEAKER_00:

for a short period

SPEAKER_01:

okay just

SPEAKER_00:

for a very short period okay for a very very short period okay um and that's a valid point to make because it's also known that we also do know that sometimes what What tends to happen is that we can use some things to try and lift our mood and they can be very detrimental. Some of the common things that people use that are damaging on the long term will be things like alcohol, illicit substances and sugar. It is actually true that when people are depressed or when we are not in the right place in our mood, there is something in us that wants to quickly lift that mood. So, sugar craving is part of the case. Yeah. When people are stressed, particularly, they turn to sugar. Yeah. Or very high calorie, which is not particularly

SPEAKER_01:

helpful. Yeah. Okay. So, I want to go back to this depression thing again. Just bear with me because it seems like it's something that's just on my heart. I was listening to a story today of an artist, a gospel artist, and she was saying that there was a period she was going through, this dark period in her life, and she She would go out there, minister to people and everybody would be excited and happy and they'd be blessed. And she'd go back to her room and she would hide under the covers for days, you know. And then within a matter of days, she's out again and she's looking very bright and excited. But nobody knew what was going on with her. For somebody like that, how would you help that person? Because it kind of seems like it was a cycle. She was going through a cycle of One minute she's really excited and happy to be out there leading people in worship, and then she goes back into her own room and she's crying for days. So for somebody going through that kind of situation, what would you say? How would you help that person?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm happy you asked that question because it's opening up a really very important conversation. and that's the assumption that we make as a society because that because somebody looks like they're high profile

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

and they're on top of their game that they don't have mental problems so that that's really very key in terms of how to help that person the challenge is that that's why we need to associate as community church the more invested in deeper relationships with the people who are in their lives

SPEAKER_02:

It's

SPEAKER_00:

important for us to have confiding relationships, people that you can really tell, one, two, three people in your life that when it comes to the crunch, you can really tell the weight it feels for you. The weight really down, when you, there must be people in our lives, we can't have 10 people like that. If we have 10 people like that, then it's trouble. But there must be at least one, two or three people that we can really take them the way

SPEAKER_02:

it

SPEAKER_00:

feels. And we can also trust that they will not betray our confidence. So in terms of how can you help that type of person, we cannot help that type of person until we know what's going on for them. And we will only know what's going on for them when they have confiding relationships where they can. And if that then happens, we can then support them through some of the things I spoke about. Encouraging them, even taking them out, exercising with them. Also, supporting them to engage with themselves. I know in church, people hear that a lot. Because the GP is the primary provider. They are the first part of the call. And just speaking to their GP and letting the GP know what's going on is really the first step towards getting help.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so funny you said, speak to somebody who's close to you for that person. But in her story, apparently her cousin who lived with her moved out because she couldn't deal with it anymore. And this was somebody she felt she could confide in, but she moved out. So I

SPEAKER_00:

think it's

SPEAKER_01:

hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_00:

It's hard and it's sad, but I want to give a different view of that story.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Because interestingly... less than a week ago was it monday or tuesday i was on the radio interview um which was it was actually in nigeria fmo wary

SPEAKER_02:

okay

SPEAKER_00:

and and so but during that radio interview was speaking about mental problems uh depression and all that somebody rings him during that interview and they say and they emphasize it's like they just really say in fact they said it better than i could have said it okay real life story into the room. What they said was that they had sadly been widowed. They had lost their wife and they had lost four children all in one blow. And they said, yes, that was quite, that must have been extremely traumatic. Very hard. And they said they became suicidal to the point where they didn't think they wanted to carry on. But they had a friend who stopped by them. And that was their lifesaver. So the point I'm trying to make is that, yes, there might be people... It's about choosing who you confide in, isn't it? Yes, it is. And sometimes it's really... There are still people, good people out there. There are still people who, when you confide in, they will stick with you and go through the trenches with you until you imagine the other side. So my... What I would like to pass on to that person is hanging their... you can still find people that you can confide in.

SPEAKER_01:

So let's move on. How do you maintain your mental well-being? Apart from exercise, like you said, socializing with people, what else can one do to maintain good mental health?

SPEAKER_00:

So we've talked about diet and of course the other thing is sleep is a superpower. I want to say that again, sleep is a superpower.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

good sleep hygiene good sleep habits are very important because it's it's when we sleep that our brain recovers from all the stress of the day from all the and literally when we sleep the brain actually cleanses itself literally that that's what happens so sleep is very important uh we've talked about but the other one i want to emphasize which can be a two egg sword is social media okay limiting and controlling monitoring of social media time a lot of social media has brought a different it's got a different life in our lives if so that's that's the best way i can say yeah and and there are risk there is research showing that from excessive social media time particularly among young girls and also among young boys and generally has been associated with depression as necessarily poor body image, anxiety, and suicidal behavior. So excessive social media time is not good for anyone. And that's something else to keep an eye on. And of course, the other thing is engaging in something outside your normal work, something that gives you pleasure.

SPEAKER_02:

Sadly,

SPEAKER_00:

there are a lot of people who work jobs that they have to go to not because they enjoy going there but because it pays the mortgage and it pays the bills so it's important to find something outside of work that makes you tick it could be music it could be whatever

SPEAKER_01:

it is something else to look forward to more or less

SPEAKER_00:

something that gives you pleasure something that you do it could be football it could be sports it could be sewing it could be knitting it could be ballet it could be opera it could be whatever I think for some people it's volunteering but there must be something else and sometimes as believers as well we are guilty of that the only thing that is in our lives is church

SPEAKER_01:

and work yes you've just nailed it just church we go to church we go to work we come back home end of story and all the friends we have are in church and that's

SPEAKER_00:

it yeah so so our social social network is so narrow and and we don't there's nothing else and that i mean i'm not not in church i love

SPEAKER_01:

church i love

SPEAKER_00:

church too sir church is good yeah so i'm not knocking church yeah i'm not saying that it's important for us to be balanced and that it's also important for us as believers to be well informed and to be around it yes we are guilty of um paying attention to our spirits, paying attention to our bodies. When it comes to our soul, we just think, oh, it's the flesh. But it's not just the flesh. The soul is important as well to be nourished.

SPEAKER_01:

Can I say something? It may be a bit controversial, but I think that sometimes the pastors as well don't allow the congregation to have time to do other things. There's one meeting after the prayer meeting, this one meeting, cell group this, one meeting here and there. So people don't even have time. Where is the time after work when you to do any other thing or on Sunday to do any other thing or Saturday there's another meeting somewhere in church so you can't really do anything extra am I am I making sense of what I'm saying because I think sometimes we yeah so we need to work on that we need to address I think the churches need to begin to address things like this and give people room to do other things and not make them feel um what's the word now guilty for not coming for all the church meetings

SPEAKER_00:

yeah you are right um I mean, thankfully, that's also something that I think people are beginning to catch up on. I mean, for instance, the church where I attend, we are really very careful about that in terms of not just overburdening people with one program to the other every day of the week. No, that's something that leadership is conscious of. And I think it's something that everyone can emulate, really, that people... going to church 20 times in a day or going to church seven days a week would not, it's probably not going to be healthy for us. It's not good for family life either anyway. No,

SPEAKER_01:

it's not. So I wanted to take you back to something you said about sleep as well. Because, okay, take for instance a woman who's in, who's perimenopausal or menopausal because of the night sweats and all of that. 90% of the time they don't get a good sleep. how does that how would that affect their mental health and how how what can they do really to help themselves because yes they want to sleep but their body is not allowing them to sleep so the how many number of hours they need they can't get so how would you encourage such a person what will you say to help such a person

SPEAKER_00:

that's a very important point just basically because There's a very strong link between menopause because of the other things that are associated with it. It's not just the changes in the hormone. It's not just the physical symptoms, but also the psychological symptoms. It's almost like it's a wake-up call. It's almost like this is midlife. And even the other things that come with it, empty nesting. Some people, that's when sadly... begin to lose their parents as well so there's quite a lot of changes that take place at that period and the first thing i would say to that sort of person that lady is that help is at the level okay it's important to stick up to start with from the general practitioner because really some people are um i know that african women black women the stereotype of the black woman is that she's a tough person

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

track anything and so society has put a lot of black or a lot of women into box where they feel that they've always got to be strong yes and to keep blooding on when in actual sense I think it's important to engage with the GP and discuss those things it's okay to take HRT if it's if it's if the quality of life is so compromised, hormone replacement therapy. And there are quite a number of other things to think about. So the point there is, the short answer to that question would be, please

SPEAKER_01:

seek help. So let's go on to mental health and men. A lot of men do.

SPEAKER_00:

Now we are talking about the elephant in the room.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, the elephant in the room. Men, especially African men, because those are the ones I'm more used to, don't talk about their health. They don't even talk about their general health in the first place, let alone their mental health. How do we address this?

SPEAKER_00:

Good point. Really very important issue. You know... I have a slightly different view. Because I agree with you that men don't readily open up about our mental health. But what I don't agree is that men don't talk. The reality is that it's the stereotype of society that men don't talk. I have found that when the atmosphere is right, when men feel safe,

SPEAKER_02:

to

SPEAKER_00:

be able to expose the innermost thoughts of our hearts. And so I think the question we need to be asking in ourselves, in church, in society, in Black communities, and every community is this, how do we create safe, sensitive spaces where men feel open enough, feel comfortable and safe enough to talk to their mentor? I think that's the question. So thankfully, that's also, I think I'm an optimist. I'm a very hopeful person. Yeah, you're very hopeful. It's good. And I'm a man of faith. So I think the Dow is beginning to move in the right direction. It's little micro steps, but we are beginning to see where men are coming together now. People go fishing together. People go doing physical activities together, football. um uh bad meeting and it's really to create that sort of bonding between men where we can feel vulnerable enough we can feel safe yet vulnerable enough to expose ourselves in that regard and when i talk about mental health and men because actually interestingly that this the video i've done on on my youtube channel yeah i've actually i've done it yeah i've done a video on how to encourage men in your life to talk about their mental well-being um it's it would have been updated within, I think it was November, October 2023 that I did that. And I'll just quickly go through those principles now. So if you want to create a safe space for another man, if it's one man to do that, to talk about their mental wellbeing, there are things you need to think about. One of them is authenticity. I call it the A, B, C, D, authenticity. A lot of people worry about, I'm not a mental health professional. I don't have mental health first aid. I'm not a counselor. I'm not a pastor. So because of that, I'm not going to be professionally suited to be the one to talk to somebody about mental health. But the reality is that men, that's not what a man is looking for. A man is looking for another man or another person, another human being who is genuine, who is interested and is not doing mental health. Somebody

SPEAKER_02:

who

SPEAKER_00:

can just listen to you and say, I feel your pain. I might not know exactly the way it is. They are not looking for professionals. It's not about the degree. It's about the humanness of that person. So that's more authenticity. And that's what we need to bring to that conversation. Because unfortunately, men, we are solution givers. As soon as that other man opens his mouth, you're already giving him two things he can do to sort out himself. And that's not what he needs.

SPEAKER_02:

So

SPEAKER_00:

authenticity is one of them. The other one is really being able to be disciplined. And that discipline is really about, sorry, to be brave. B is for bravery. Bravery in two things, brave to be able to ask the question, There have been times in my life when I've asked just to dare to ask about mental well-being, when in actual sense, I almost nearly thought that the answer was going to be, no, just don't forget, don't bother about it. But I'm glad that I did, because on some of those occasions, it had been a lifesaver. So be brave to ask. If you feel that, although we are men of the spirit, we have the spirit of God, And sometimes if you just know somebody is not right, don't assume. Don't assume. So be brave. And the other part of that bravery is to be brave enough to hold back yourself. One of the greatest forms of bravery is to be able to deal with ourselves. And that bravery is not to be able to jump into conclusions and begin to give solutions to somebody who's just about to open up their mouth to express themselves. Because as soon as they hear that, the shutters would go down again and that person would move on. Yet they would still be sore, they would still be traumatized, they would still have all those emotions that they are wishing somebody would give them another opportunity to discuss. So that's the bravery. The third one is confidentiality. And that's something that in our communities, in our black and church communities, we still have a lot of work to do. A

SPEAKER_01:

lot, a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

A lot, lot, lot of

SPEAKER_01:

work. A lot. because people don't like to talk to others because they feel they become the prayer point and the gossip point

SPEAKER_00:

you know and and and when that happens they shut up they just say oh yeah so so the way i talk about it is confidentially and and this is when i have these conversations with men and i do have enough of these conversations what i tell them is this and that's what i feel that as a principle we should all adopt. I will not break your confidentiality. Even if you are an adult or a young adult speaking to me, even if your parents was my best buddy, your parents will not hear anything from me about what's going on for you. Whatever you want to share with your parents, you can share it with them. I will let them. You share it with them, but they wouldn't hear it from me. That's one. Two, the only way The only reason we will break confidentiality is if I feel that your life is at risk, i.e. being suicidal, or somebody else's life is at risk as a result of your mental, i.e. you are making homicidal, you are talking about homicidal thoughts towards somebody else. And in that situation, we would both agree that we need to break confidentiality. We would have a judgment. So that's the confidentiality. The other part is the distraction. Distraction has to do with I cannot be spilling my guts to you and you are half on the phone, half on social media, half on the television, and half speaking to somebody else. I'm going to think this guy is not serious. He's

SPEAKER_01:

not interested even.

SPEAKER_00:

He's not interested. He doesn't understand. He doesn't get the magnet. He probably doesn't even care. Absolutely. But distraction can be a deterrent to people opening up. and wanting to share their lives and the things that are really the way to touch them. The other one is exchange. Exchange is really about, if I want somebody to feel comfortable enough to share their lives, particularly the very things that are deep, deep within the inner recesses of their hearts, I'm going to be willing to give away something of myself as well. I need to let them know that I'm human and that I'm not a superhero. Because if they see you as the person who is arrived, who is everything about your life is together. I'm not saying we should share the most intricate parts of our lives, but it's important that that man is also willing to do something with. If I find somebody struggling with challenges, for instance, in terms of maybe their career, I will usually share the difficult career journeys of that man. That look, everybody, this happens to everyone. No one is immune.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

and i think that sort of makes people relax and say actually maybe this person is touching maybe yeah not somebody is on the high horse and the final one is friendliness when somebody has yeah they become vulnerable thoughts it's important to say thank you to them

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

because they are taking a chance on you they are really going out of their comfort zone particularly if it's a black man

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

it's thank you to them it's important to appreciate that you you know they've held you in confidence and you appreciate their words of confidence it's important to then also let them know what their next steps what do you want where do you want us to take this but important to say thank you to them that you appreciate that they have taken themselves out of their normal comfort

SPEAKER_01:

zone to speak with you okay that's that's really really um very great very good and um Maybe if you could just tell us where to find that on YouTube and we can go and look for that. Before we go to that, I want to go back to bravery. Because when you were talking about something dropped in my spirit, which I think we need to talk about. And you said that, oh, it's gone out of my mind now. Oh, what was it? It's just gone out of my mind. Oh. we'll come back to it we'll come back to the holy spirit to remind me about it again um okay tell us about the youtube channel first and hopefully you'll come back to me

SPEAKER_00:

so i'm sure it will come back to you so it's called try part yeah try part in terms of we are free we are we are we are made up of three parts okay We are spirits, we have a soul, and we live in the body. So it's private. So private addresses. And if you type in private on YouTube, it will bring it up.

SPEAKER_01:

It will bring it up. Okay. Yeah, it's come back to me now. So it's about the fact that, for me, I see that men generally would always jump to give advice, like you said, if somebody comes to talk to them, because that's how they're wired, to give advice. So what I wanted to say was that maybe we need to start training our young people our young boys and our men, we need to start training them now to teach them. Practitioners like yourself maybe need to start teaching young men how to respond when somebody comes to them with stuff like that so that people are brave enough to then come to them because they know, okay, you're not just going to ram down solutions down my head. You're going to actually take the time to listen. So maybe there's a need for that. It's just something that dropped in my spirit and I thought maybe I'd discuss that with you. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_00:

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm really, I'm jumping here. I'm feeling really very excited.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh,

SPEAKER_00:

thank God. Really, really, it's bang on the money. And I'll tell you, absolutely. We need to encourage our young men and even our adults as well, no matter if we're 100 years old, we can still learn new things. Yes. to not to jump to conclusions, not to always try to procure solutions when we haven't even listened. That's one. The other one is to help our young men, particularly from the time they are born, to let them know that it's okay for men to do emotions. That the fact that you feel emotions and that you have to believe it does not mean you are less of a man. You know, in the place where I come from, which I think is the same place we come from, they say, when something happens to a man, they will say, be a man.

SPEAKER_01:

Be a

SPEAKER_00:

man, yeah. So the man has just had the most traumatic experience of his life. They say, pull yourself together. Don't cry over it. Just be a man. And the reality is that, so from a very early age, from even before they could learn to spell their names, we are denying those boys of the access to be touched with their emotions. We are teaching them that they are less of a man if you have any emotions to show any iota of

SPEAKER_02:

feelings.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's why those people would then excel. They will excel in all the spheres of life. They are the best. They are on top of their games, but they don't do emotions. And suddenly they become middle-aged men and we are thinking, oh, why is he finding difficult? He had been programmed from before, from as soon as he came into the graveyard. Thank

SPEAKER_01:

you so much. Thank you so much. We're fast coming to the end of this show. And before we go, do you have any word of hope that you could live with the people, any scripture, anything to live with people out there who might be going through a difficult season, a mental health issue?

SPEAKER_00:

So two things I would like to say. One of them is, is that, To anyone who is going through a difficult time at the moment, the scripture that comes to mind is that the Bible says, it's in one of the Psalms, I can't readily bring it up now, but it says that it binds up the brokenhearted and it heals their wounds. So God is not only interested in our spirits and our bodies, but he's also interested in our souls. Psalm 23 says that he restores my soul. So I want to give hope, I want to borrow my hope to whoever is listening today. It is going to be a very difficult patch. Please do ask for help. Reach out for help. That's one thing I want to say. Please do ask for help and reach out for help. And the other one I want to say is to young people. During COVID and after COVID, the government surveyed the population generally. They wanted to look at their mental well-being and they found out that mental well-being of young adults between the age of 18 to 35 was the most adversely affected out of all the population and those are the people that we neglect the most you think yeah yeah they are millennials yeah they are earning a lot of money and they are still living at home and they are poor

SPEAKER_02:

but

SPEAKER_00:

the reality is they're not. And you mentioned something earlier that we need to teach our young people, young men, what to do, how to, from the very, very start, we need to teach them. And that's one of the things we do at KIPAC here. We'll be running a course for mental health, a mental health course for young adults of Christian background, Christians, who are young adults between the age of 18 and 35 in March. Every Thursday in March is on Zoom. We've run it two or three times. We've run it twice before and it's always very, very well embraced. It's free. People just need to send an email to triparty at gmail.com Okay. And they will register for it and all the details will be available. Okay. And I hope that that's a blessing to somebody.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Tripadcare at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00:

Gmail.com. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. And if anybody else wanted to get in touch with you, how else can they get in touch with you? Maybe they want to just

SPEAKER_00:

have a chat with you. Yeah. I think that would be the tripadcare at gmail.com. As

SPEAKER_01:

well. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Just to put a caveat there that I, I, Up to maybe a year or two ago, I used to be available to be able to speak to every single person who wanted to speak to me. The reality is that currently with the way things are in terms of my diary, the fact that I still hold a full-time NHS job, it's been pretty difficult to meet that need. But what I can do is sometimes I signpost to other people. I would usually be able to offer one support for the other. It may not be one-to-one.

SPEAKER_01:

That's good. Thank you so much. At least they can email you at the tripod care. Yes, and then you can show them the way. Thank you so, so much. I really, really appreciate your time. I know you're a very busy person. So thank you for honoring this invitation. I'm really grateful. And I've actually enjoyed this conversation. I've learned a lot of things. So I'm going to cut out my sugar and the high calorie stuff. In my diet to help my mental health. Thank you so much, Dr. Taiwo. And hopefully we'll have you on this show again sometime soon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me. And thank you for opening an opportunity to speak about mental well-being. Thank

SPEAKER_01:

you. Thank you. God bless.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's been navigating the chapters of Challenge with Telly. I hope you found that useful. I hope you've learned something and I hope you're going to implement whatever you've learned in your life as well. And hopefully you'll be with us again sometime soon. Thank you very much and see you soon. Thank you.